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urbanjedi wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:And to be clear - it's not me saying "my squad is better!" I actually don't really like the squad I won with to be honest. I feel it's all very match-up dependent. His squad really can't handle lots of activation swarms, especially Daala. My squad fairs better against those. His squad has better matchups than mine against certain other squad types. I still feel I win the head to head match 90% of the time. In the situation Deaths_Baine described, he forgets that at the end of the game I outactivate and we are tied on gambit, but then I still have all my attackers left and I only need to kill one piece of his. (Not that I would let it get to that anyway). Theory crafting aside - it all does't matter. I just was pointing out that people didn't make a big fuss over my squad, but they are his squad, and there are many similarities.
All that aside - yes Klats are undercosted. It's all semantics, (what is broken? What is tier one? What is undercosted?), but to me undercosted is a step below broken. I think they might even be VERY undercosted but not quite broken.
I think they needed to lose (or change) at least 3 of the following 5 to be "priced normal",
lose (or change) 2 to be just "really good"
cloaked ---> stealth
10 hp
Jedi hatred
Self-destruct 20 --->Self destruct 10
attack 12 ---> 8-10
I heard the comparison to Nom Bombs, but the comparison falls quite short. Nom Bombs are completely neutered by multiple methods. Disruptive, distraction, Vong Sense with Force Sense, and It's a trap all make them lose BOTH super-stealth AND self-destruct. Currently there are very few methods to target cloaked while not adjacent, and currently there is NO way to defuse a bomb that has self destruct on their card (as opposed to a CE). So - even going with the fact that Kalts main deal is self-dtesruct AND cloaked (nasty combo alone), even still klats have 30 hp (why?) 20 base damage (I get this one - no czerka twin shenanigans), Jedi hatred (why?) and a TWELVE attack (WHY!?!). Nothing is even close to those stats that can get superstealth through Nom, but Klats have a BETTER form of it (not susceptible to many things Nom bombs are), and have all that other icing. And they are SHOOTERS, which most Nom Bombs are not.
So yes - Klats are . . . less than ideal design (to be nice), but we have them.
And this isn't new. Luke Cook spent a season coming up with many forms of Klats squads (Republic Death Shot klats, OR Bastila Klats, swapping Imp Klats, etc), and did quite well with several.
This big hoopla over Klats is just happening now? Your late to the party. We've moved on.
well, I doubt scruffy would play the game that way either, but it is possible that he doesn't leave you anything to shoot at on that map :) but you are right it is all theory crafting anyways so like you said not a big deal. I also had someone tell me that the only things that have won a regional/ major tournament this year were the daala variations and talon-all fringe squads so far that is pretty crazy to me. I think this is just like daala was in the beginning stages with people calling for erratas and even bans, but the community came together and PLAYED the squad into the ground and found a real problem, that is my suggestion for the klats as well. Let us see if they keep winning and have some of the other top players play with either tims squad or scruffy's squad or heck even one they come up with themselves and if it keeps dominating and go from there. It isn't surprising that Daala and Talon are winning. They are the new hotness. Next regional season it will be 2 or 3 new pieces that dominate the regional season to be forgotten when the next new hotness comes out. Does nobody remember when Storm Commando's and Mace dominated the regionals? And where are those pieces now. Still playable, but no where near as popular because people move on. The Klats are good. No one is arguing that. But so is P. Leia, R2 Astromech, Thrawn, etc. There is nothing wrong with good (or even great) pieces. Without them, our game would get very boring. I don't think people moved on because they got sick of the pieces I think they moved on because counters were added to them, look at the amount of parry,makashi that was added after mace windu, it is pretty clear that they wanted to add counters to big melee beats after he made the splash he did. But I think the level of dominance is harkening back to the old WoTC time frame where it was like 5 squads or nothing. with the open meta we just got done enjoying it is kind of sad to see 2 squad types dominating the tournament scene.... then again if all we are worried about is what happens at gencon I guess we will wait and see. because we all know that at last years gencon the regional season went right out the window and we had a very diverse top 8. I am agreeing that the klats may not need any special changes... yet... but would like to see more people play them like daala just to make sure that they are just the flavor of the month and not a true problem *Daala is still winning even with the errata done to her so I believe she is more then just the new hotness... I think daala squads are still to good.
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Of course Daala squads are still winning. Prideful grants a universal +4 Atk and +10 Dam. While she still has that, she isn't going anywhere. Now, the question is, does she create problems in the meta. That is debatable. But just because something is still winning, doesn't mean it is unbalanced. The errata wasn't meant to take her out of the competitive range.
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People aren't playing daila because she is new and exciting, they are playing her because she wins. Now that all the attention has been put on the power Klats more people will start playing them because they win. The klat and talon record are not nearly as good as the daila snow troopers squads though.(notice I said snow troopers) When Tim and scruffy one they had very very close games... Not so much with daila snow troopers. Just to clarify, I am saying the snow trooper squads are better than the Raxus and super stealth scouts squad.
People defiantly play all fringe squads because it is fun, the idea of playing and winning with an all fringe squad was exciting, but with daila it is not the same. A lot of people would say it isn't even fun to play. She has already proven her metal, and is still the top squad to beat. If I play her at the next regional it won't be because I enjoy it, it would be because I wanted to win. Lol
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atmsalad wrote:If I play her at the next regional it won't be because I enjoy it, it would be because I wanted to win. Lol Well said. IMHO, this is the issue. Whenever a gatekeeper is too strong, it restricts the meta...and THAT is what makes the game boring.
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atmsalad wrote:Just to clarify, I am saying the snow trooper squads are better than the Raxus and super stealth scouts squad. Do you have any grounds that the Raxus Prime Troopers aren't as strong as the Snow Troopers? They do lose some damage, and the drop to 10 hit points is significant, but I think all the crazy wall climber stuff they can do makes up for it, and the Repulsor Sled is crazy fast and dangerous with the Imperial Officer cannon CE. This is the slept on squad from this season: Quote:--Daala in Her Prime V2.0--
27 Admiral Daala
20 Admiral Piett
16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon
16 Grand Admiral Rulf Yage
14 Imperial Officer
14 Stormtrooper on Repulsor Sled
11 Captain Needa
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
60 Raxus Prime Trooper x12
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 23 activations) Dr Daman won LowerHuttACon with it, although he did take a very narrow loss in the process, and has also won with it in the current NZ Vassal tournament. It's very good - I think someone else should at least try it before writing it off. I do think Talon/Klats is just the new hotness - it's just one of lots of very good squads. While I think Daala is a few steps up from most other squads at the moment. It has some bad matchups, but they're not very popular in the meta at the moment.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:urbanjedi wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:And to be clear - it's not me saying "my squad is better!" I actually don't really like the squad I won with to be honest. I feel it's all very match-up dependent. His squad really can't handle lots of activation swarms, especially Daala. My squad fairs better against those. His squad has better matchups than mine against certain other squad types. I still feel I win the head to head match 90% of the time. In the situation Deaths_Baine described, he forgets that at the end of the game I outactivate and we are tied on gambit, but then I still have all my attackers left and I only need to kill one piece of his. (Not that I would let it get to that anyway). Theory crafting aside - it all does't matter. I just was pointing out that people didn't make a big fuss over my squad, but they are his squad, and there are many similarities.
All that aside - yes Klats are undercosted. It's all semantics, (what is broken? What is tier one? What is undercosted?), but to me undercosted is a step below broken. I think they might even be VERY undercosted but not quite broken.
I think they needed to lose (or change) at least 3 of the following 5 to be "priced normal",
lose (or change) 2 to be just "really good"
cloaked ---> stealth
10 hp
Jedi hatred
Self-destruct 20 --->Self destruct 10
attack 12 ---> 8-10
I heard the comparison to Nom Bombs, but the comparison falls quite short. Nom Bombs are completely neutered by multiple methods. Disruptive, distraction, Vong Sense with Force Sense, and It's a trap all make them lose BOTH super-stealth AND self-destruct. Currently there are very few methods to target cloaked while not adjacent, and currently there is NO way to defuse a bomb that has self destruct on their card (as opposed to a CE). So - even going with the fact that Kalts main deal is self-dtesruct AND cloaked (nasty combo alone), even still klats have 30 hp (why?) 20 base damage (I get this one - no czerka twin shenanigans), Jedi hatred (why?) and a TWELVE attack (WHY!?!). Nothing is even close to those stats that can get superstealth through Nom, but Klats have a BETTER form of it (not susceptible to many things Nom bombs are), and have all that other icing. And they are SHOOTERS, which most Nom Bombs are not.
So yes - Klats are . . . less than ideal design (to be nice), but we have them.
And this isn't new. Luke Cook spent a season coming up with many forms of Klats squads (Republic Death Shot klats, OR Bastila Klats, swapping Imp Klats, etc), and did quite well with several.
This big hoopla over Klats is just happening now? Your late to the party. We've moved on.
well, I doubt scruffy would play the game that way either, but it is possible that he doesn't leave you anything to shoot at on that map :) but you are right it is all theory crafting anyways so like you said not a big deal. I also had someone tell me that the only things that have won a regional/ major tournament this year were the daala variations and talon-all fringe squads so far that is pretty crazy to me. I think this is just like daala was in the beginning stages with people calling for erratas and even bans, but the community came together and PLAYED the squad into the ground and found a real problem, that is my suggestion for the klats as well. Let us see if they keep winning and have some of the other top players play with either tims squad or scruffy's squad or heck even one they come up with themselves and if it keeps dominating and go from there. It isn't surprising that Daala and Talon are winning. They are the new hotness. Next regional season it will be 2 or 3 new pieces that dominate the regional season to be forgotten when the next new hotness comes out. Does nobody remember when Storm Commando's and Mace dominated the regionals? And where are those pieces now. Still playable, but no where near as popular because people move on. The Klats are good. No one is arguing that. But so is P. Leia, R2 Astromech, Thrawn, etc. There is nothing wrong with good (or even great) pieces. Without them, our game would get very boring. I don't think people moved on because they got sick of the pieces I think they moved on because counters were added to them, look at the amount of parry,makashi that was added after mace windu, it is pretty clear that they wanted to add counters to big melee beats after he made the splash he did. But I think the level of dominance is harkening back to the old WoTC time frame where it was like 5 squads or nothing. with the open meta we just got done enjoying it is kind of sad to see 2 squad types dominating the tournament scene.... then again if all we are worried about is what happens at gencon I guess we will wait and see. because we all know that at last years gencon the regional season went right out the window and we had a very diverse top 8. I am agreeing that the klats may not need any special changes... yet... but would like to see more people play them like daala just to make sure that they are just the flavor of the month and not a true problem *Daala is still winning even with the errata done to her so I believe she is more then just the new hotness... I think daala squads are still to good. A Mace in the Face squad was 2nd in Michigan, and was absolutely in with a shot against the Daala squad. I feel like this discussion is too focused on what WON specific events, rather than the meta at each event and the path they took to get there. In Kokomo, Chris P cruised through the swiss undefeated with a separatist squad including Cad, Assaj, and Durge on Speeder, and no one's on here complaining that those pieces have constricted the meta. If you're going to a competitive event, you should have a plan to deal with Daala. You might also want to have a plan to deal with klats ( or really, anything that will damage you when you kill it). But having to be prepared for something doesn't automatically make it a problem.
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TheHutts wrote:atmsalad wrote:Just to clarify, I am saying the snow trooper squads are better than the Raxus and super stealth scouts squad. Do you have any grounds that the Raxus Prime Troopers aren't as strong as the Snow Troopers? They do lose some damage, and the drop to 10 hit points is significant, but I think all the crazy wall climber stuff they can do makes up for it, and the Repulsor Sled is crazy fast and dangerous with the Imperial Officer cannon CE. This is the slept on squad from this season: Quote:--Daala in Her Prime V2.0--
27 Admiral Daala
20 Admiral Piett
16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon
16 Grand Admiral Rulf Yage
14 Imperial Officer
14 Stormtrooper on Repulsor Sled
11 Captain Needa
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
60 Raxus Prime Trooper x12
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(200pts. 23 activations) Dr Daman won LowerHuttACon with it, although he did take a very narrow loss in the process, and has also won with it in the current NZ Vassal tournament. It's very good - I think someone else should at least try it before writing it off. I do think Talon/Klats is just the new hotness - it's just one of lots of very good squads. While I think Daala is a few steps up from most other squads at the moment. It has some bad matchups, but they're not very popular in the meta at the moment. There was a raxus squad at the indiana regional, and also I have seen snow troopers use the repulser sled as well. I think raxus definitely has unpredictability on its side, but personally I don't think it compares to snow troops. I could give more reasons, but that would take to longg and I am at the Indy 500 😊
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I thought that the only Daala squad at the Indiana Regional was this: Quote:Randy did run Daala with Storm Commandos, but the key was his insane 10 Imp Diplomats attacking at +10 for 30, and you usually couldn't attack them back due to his superstealthed Storm Commandos. It might have had a Raxus or two in there, but it wasn't the focus of the squad? I've been keeping records on Regionals this year, and I don't think anyone has run Raxus plus Daala at any kind of official tournament apart from Dr Daman, and he's been doing exceptionally well with them. I think the two squads are fairly equivalent in terms of power level - the Snow Troopers have more power and extra hit points, but the Raxus are faster and can get in behind the enemy lines. With Needa's CE, the Raxus don't miss much.
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TheHutts wrote:I thought that the only Daala squad at the Indiana Regional was this: Quote:Randy did run Daala with Storm Commandos, but the key was his insane 10 Imp Diplomats attacking at +10 for 30, and you usually couldn't attack them back due to his superstealthed Storm Commandos. It might have had a Raxus or two in there, but it wasn't the focus of the squad? I've been keeping records on Regionals this year, and I don't think anyone has run Raxus plus Daala at any kind of official tournament apart from Dr Daman, and he's been doing exceptionally well with them. I think the two squads are fairly equivalent in terms of power level - the Snow Troopers have more power and extra hit points, but the Raxus are faster and can get in behind the enemy lines. With Needa's CE, the Raxus don't miss much. I was mistaken, it was diplomats in that instance.
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UrbanShmi wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:urbanjedi wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:And to be clear - it's not me saying "my squad is better!" I actually don't really like the squad I won with to be honest. I feel it's all very match-up dependent. His squad really can't handle lots of activation swarms, especially Daala. My squad fairs better against those. His squad has better matchups than mine against certain other squad types. I still feel I win the head to head match 90% of the time. In the situation Deaths_Baine described, he forgets that at the end of the game I outactivate and we are tied on gambit, but then I still have all my attackers left and I only need to kill one piece of his. (Not that I would let it get to that anyway). Theory crafting aside - it all does't matter. I just was pointing out that people didn't make a big fuss over my squad, but they are his squad, and there are many similarities.
All that aside - yes Klats are undercosted. It's all semantics, (what is broken? What is tier one? What is undercosted?), but to me undercosted is a step below broken. I think they might even be VERY undercosted but not quite broken.
I think they needed to lose (or change) at least 3 of the following 5 to be "priced normal",
lose (or change) 2 to be just "really good"
cloaked ---> stealth
10 hp
Jedi hatred
Self-destruct 20 --->Self destruct 10
attack 12 ---> 8-10
I heard the comparison to Nom Bombs, but the comparison falls quite short. Nom Bombs are completely neutered by multiple methods. Disruptive, distraction, Vong Sense with Force Sense, and It's a trap all make them lose BOTH super-stealth AND self-destruct. Currently there are very few methods to target cloaked while not adjacent, and currently there is NO way to defuse a bomb that has self destruct on their card (as opposed to a CE). So - even going with the fact that Kalts main deal is self-dtesruct AND cloaked (nasty combo alone), even still klats have 30 hp (why?) 20 base damage (I get this one - no czerka twin shenanigans), Jedi hatred (why?) and a TWELVE attack (WHY!?!). Nothing is even close to those stats that can get superstealth through Nom, but Klats have a BETTER form of it (not susceptible to many things Nom bombs are), and have all that other icing. And they are SHOOTERS, which most Nom Bombs are not.
So yes - Klats are . . . less than ideal design (to be nice), but we have them.
And this isn't new. Luke Cook spent a season coming up with many forms of Klats squads (Republic Death Shot klats, OR Bastila Klats, swapping Imp Klats, etc), and did quite well with several.
This big hoopla over Klats is just happening now? Your late to the party. We've moved on.
well, I doubt scruffy would play the game that way either, but it is possible that he doesn't leave you anything to shoot at on that map :) but you are right it is all theory crafting anyways so like you said not a big deal. I also had someone tell me that the only things that have won a regional/ major tournament this year were the daala variations and talon-all fringe squads so far that is pretty crazy to me. I think this is just like daala was in the beginning stages with people calling for erratas and even bans, but the community came together and PLAYED the squad into the ground and found a real problem, that is my suggestion for the klats as well. Let us see if they keep winning and have some of the other top players play with either tims squad or scruffy's squad or heck even one they come up with themselves and if it keeps dominating and go from there. It isn't surprising that Daala and Talon are winning. They are the new hotness. Next regional season it will be 2 or 3 new pieces that dominate the regional season to be forgotten when the next new hotness comes out. Does nobody remember when Storm Commando's and Mace dominated the regionals? And where are those pieces now. Still playable, but no where near as popular because people move on. The Klats are good. No one is arguing that. But so is P. Leia, R2 Astromech, Thrawn, etc. There is nothing wrong with good (or even great) pieces. Without them, our game would get very boring. I don't think people moved on because they got sick of the pieces I think they moved on because counters were added to them, look at the amount of parry,makashi that was added after mace windu, it is pretty clear that they wanted to add counters to big melee beats after he made the splash he did. But I think the level of dominance is harkening back to the old WoTC time frame where it was like 5 squads or nothing. with the open meta we just got done enjoying it is kind of sad to see 2 squad types dominating the tournament scene.... then again if all we are worried about is what happens at gencon I guess we will wait and see. because we all know that at last years gencon the regional season went right out the window and we had a very diverse top 8. I am agreeing that the klats may not need any special changes... yet... but would like to see more people play them like daala just to make sure that they are just the flavor of the month and not a true problem *Daala is still winning even with the errata done to her so I believe she is more then just the new hotness... I think daala squads are still to good. A Mace in the Face squad was 2nd in Michigan, and was absolutely in with a shot against the Daala squad. I feel like this discussion is too focused on what WON specific events, rather than the meta at each event and the path they took to get there. In Kokomo, Chris P cruised through the swiss undefeated with a separatist squad including Cad, Assaj, and Durge on Speeder, and no one's on here complaining that those pieces have constricted the meta. If you're going to a competitive event, you should have a plan to deal with Daala. You might also want to have a plan to deal with klats ( or really, anything that will damage you when you kill it). But having to be prepared for something doesn't automatically make it a problem. Even with Eric miscounting by a square, daila is a really bad matchup for mace squads. If there was a lot of potential for him to win then that is the most BA mace squad ever, or something was wrong, lol. Chris P's squad was sick, he has answers to a lot and he plays it very very well. I wish more people would play squads like that, crazy original and unique. A problem isn't what most people are talking about, it is a piece that many players have said is over powered for his point cost and replaces most shooters, in his point range, both in and out of his faction. Just because it may take people a couple years to realize there is a chink in there armor doesn't make that chink any less dangerous. I to hope that more people will play klat squads so we can properly gauge how powerful they really are... Or if people are just over reacting, myself included. And as for daila, her squads are really freaking good... Yep
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If you visit their Character page, it's obvious that people picked up on their potential straight away; http://www.bloomilk.com/Character/1219/klatooinian-assassinPeople have been running them in different factions and have done well - Timmerb123 won a 100 point event with them and Whorm in Seps last year, and a Cook won with them in Republic with death shots in a Regional last year. They're amazingly good for 12 points, I would have preferred if they'd been costed higher or lost some abilities, and the Talon Karrde might be the best use of them yet, but I don't think they're better than the other Tier 1 squads around. They're undercosted, but not broken.
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The truth is this is a very very small set of results to draw much from. Is Daala good? Yes! Are Klats good? Yes!
But literally a dice change or 2 and we have a separatist champ, and/or a republic champ, and or a rebel champ (or 2).
These squads were the 4 or 5 that won in the end, but most were not undefeated.
I personally have yet to lose to Daala or Talon Karrde (not to say I won't), and I beat the MI champ Daala squad that day (people seem to be forgetting that). Match-ups are huge
A few years back Spry won a regional with Storm Commandos, beating several top players. He's a good player and his squad was good. But look at the match-ups - he beat 4 nearly all Melee squads that day. Couldn't have better matchups. Then at GenCon he went 0-3 with the same squad and dropped. Many people thought Storm Commandos would make a strong showing, but he was the only one playing them in the end, and people had a plan.
Everyone will have a plan for Daala at GenCon.
And if they don't they aren't very competitive. Surprise squads often do well.
Daala is the gatekeeper. But Daala won't win GenCon. Neither will a bunch of Klats.
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Agreed that Daala is a terrible matchup for Mace in general. But it wasn't a blowout. All I was saying was what Tim just said--we're focusing on the squads that won, but there's more to the story than that. I really have a hard time seeing the meta as constricted when there have been so many vastly different builds in top fours this year.
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UrbanShmi wrote: I really have a hard time seeing the meta as constricted when there have been so many vastly different builds in top fours this year. Yeah, even though Klats and Daala are popular, the meta is nowhere near as small as it was during the reign of GOWK.
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I will agree to this. To be honest I cannot believe that Soresu Mastery ever got changed back. That decision really blew me away, and to borrow a phrase from my good buddy TimmerB124, "really made my blood boil".
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To an extent. GOWK wasn't as big a problem in 200, which had become the standard format.
Though, I think many didn't the problem with why it wasn't a problem anymore.
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atmsalad wrote:People aren't playing daila because she is new and exciting, they are playing her because she wins. Not entirely true, but I see your point in making the distinction. There has been clamor from the community for a long time regarding Imperial builds, complaining that if you want to be competitive, you had to run Thrawn. Now there is a viable option, and I think there are people wanting to run her because they like Imperials and (they feel) she's a breath of fresh air compared to Thrawn. As far as people playing her because she wins, there will always be people who may not feel that they are good enough to win without net decking something that looks easy. (See Gowk, Mace, Slow Cannon, Snowspeeder builds, Solo Charge, etc.) Also, there are people I know like Flying Arrow who have invested a lot in Daala builds, starting way before the furor over her started. To his credit, he was one of the most vocal calling for her to be reigned in. Regarding Scruffy's win, he said he'd not had a lot of seat time with the squad. I still stand by my statement...he's not some subpar player with a good squad...he has skills. Doesn't matter no one has heard of him. No one has heard of my son either, yet he's got 2 2nd place regional finishes to his credit, and is 2-1 against Thereisnotry lifetime, a Hall of Fame player I have never been able to beat.
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Darth_Jim wrote:atmsalad wrote:People aren't playing daila because she is new and exciting, they are playing her because she wins. Not entirely true, but I see your point in making the distinction. There has been clamor from the community for a long time regarding Imperial builds, complaining that if you want to be competitive, you had to run Thrawn. Now there is a viable option, and I think there are people wanting to run her because they like Imperials and (they feel) she's a breath of fresh air compared to Thrawn. As far as people playing her because she wins, there will always be people who may not feel that they are good enough to win without net decking something that looks easy. (See Gowk, Mace, Slow Cannon, Snowspeeder builds, Solo Charge, etc.) Also, there are people I know like Flying Arrow who have invested a lot in Daala builds, starting way before the furor over her started. To his credit, he was one of the most vocal calling for her to be reigned in. Regarding Scruffy's win, he said he'd not had a lot of seat time with the squad. I still stand by my statement...he's not some subpar player with a good squad...he has skills. Doesn't matter no one has heard of him. No one has heard of my son either, yet he's got 2 2nd place regional finishes to his credit, and is 2-1 against Thereisnotry lifetime, a Hall of Fame player I have never been able to beat. Also, Daala being new and exciting is part of the reason she's winning. In many of the events so far, people maybe haven't been entirely equipped or prepared to deal with her. I expect that to change as the regional season wears on.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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From a New Zealand perspective, we got our v-set 6 cards with Daala in July, at the NZ National tournament, close to a year ago. Daala's won every single day Swiss tournament since then, starting from the Hutt100 in early September, and everyone is familiar with her. She really doesn't feel like the new hotness anymore here, although I guess the variations (Snows, Raxus, Elite Scouts) help to keep her fresh.
I do agree with TimmerB's assessment that she's the gatekeeper. She's quite a complex gatekeeper though, as she allows for diverse squads.
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Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
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Yes, the NZ group was a bit ahead of a lot of us here in that regard, I think. But I suspect a lot of us in the US don't necessarily play competitive games regularly, so, even if we read up on all the theorycrafting and other people's results, we can still be surprised when we come to the table against something for the first time :-)
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