I think this is a really good point. Part of the issue, I think, is that while the V-sets are designed by people who generally have a deep understanding of the game and even appreciation of its complexities, that isn't necessarily shared by most of the community. The fact is that the game WotC left really wasn't simple at all; it was overly complex and full of weird and contradictory rulings that you just had to memorize. But in most games that stuff didn't come up outside of the highly competitive level. While the top end of WotC was very complex, the bottom end was very simple.

One of the problems I see in the V-sets with that wonderful 20/20 hindsight is that we did raise the ceiling of complexity with some pieces, but more significantly we raised the floor of complexity a lot. I think raising the ceiling some was ok, because it let us really explore the design space and do what I think are interesting things. But we should have tried harder to leave the floor where it was. A lot of competitive players don't like the complexity floor being low, though, especially with powerful pieces. It was one of the driving complaints behind Panaka of Theed: a Naboo Deathshot squad was both powerful and easy to play. That's a natural complaint of competitive gamers, but I think it might be the opposite of how new or casual players feel.

The complexity also leads to misguided complaints about "power creep", where people believe that a more complex piece is a more powerful piece. That is, in my opinion, probably why a lot of the power creep arguments devolve into meaninglessness: more complex pieces often FEEL more powerful even if they aren't, so the people complaining about power creep might have a genuinely good point, but it isn't the point they're trying to make. This leads to the other side dismissing the complaints entirely instead of trying to root out the actual reason behind them.


It's also just an issue of a game that has gotten old but doesn't have rotation. There card pool is now SO high that it is a huge barrier of entry to get into. You can look at other games like Fantasy Flight's older LCGs (Lord of the Rings, Call of Cthulhu, and Game of Thrones 1e) and see the same problem: the games aren't overwhelmingly complex, and the new stuff isn't necessarily more complex than the old stuff, but there's just SO MUCH of it that it's hard for a new player to get their head around. Games that are either newer or have shorter rotations are easier to jump into.

Would a set 13 & 14 constructed event make any sense? Or other restricted constructed set? Maybe. 11-14? The killik joiner provide the ubiquitous filler role.

Yeah, that's what I think, too.

I don't want that to sound like a knock on the guys who do the SHNN now. Bryan is a great host. I was a host for a while myself and I would always tend to have really long shows, reaching up to 2+ hours. It's hard to keep it succinct and there is always so much to say on a topic. I just think the community would benefit by some of that conversation being brought to a more visible area.


Back on topic: I don't think moving the championship to a different location is feasible. Its hard enough for me to attend GenCon (haven't been in 3 years, sadly); if I had to choose between traveling somewhere for the SWM championship and attending the Best Four Days in Gaming, GenCon wins hands down. And coming from Atlanta it definitely would be a choice, because no way am I going to be able to swing getting time off for both events.

This was the second year for my Death Race event. Last year we sold 17 of 18 slots for the 3 games. This year it was 6, 5, and 4 sold (3 collected as dude was late from another game.) Everyone playing does not play the game regularly and I'd be surprised if any person didn't have fun. The participants couldn't wait until next year after telling them plans for Death Race III and I think they like a sort of "ownership" of the event as I incorporate an idea or two that enhance the event.

Thanks James!



Heck yeah! That sort of thing excites me. Altough I aknowledge it might turn others off.



Let's do it. Nobody is beholden to it, but it gives us an idea.

An additional benefit to this is that people have an idea early on, and can start planning. Instead of last minute figuring it all out.



Seriously James, you are awesome. I really appreciate all you do!

As far as the data, this years dropoff was depressing. However, it is not time to quit! It is time to redouble our efforts!!!

Several factors kept numbers down. I know AT LEAST a dozen serious players who would have played minis events that couldn't come this year. It was just a sad coinsidence that it happened to so many at once. Jake K, Matt Spry, Darth Jim, Juiceman Joe, Daniel S, Josh H, Chris P, just to name a few off the top of my head. Be it finances, injury/surgery/health issues, timing (GenCon was early this year), etc - it just seemed to not work for TOO MANY of our top players. But (hopefully) that was just this year. We seemed to have in general plateaued out for a few years 2012-2015, and I really think this year was the annomoly.

What we CANNOT do, is jump ship. If we continue to go down in numbers for a few more years, then I might admit defeat. But not yet. One year does not a pattern make!

Our friends from New Zealand are making a SERIOUS PUSH to come next year. Not only will this add more players, but it will create excitement to finally meet these guys in person and match up against some of the best in the world! We owe it to THEM as well as ourselves to show up and make SWM at GenCon something worthwile.

The biggest thing that will sink this ship is people already declaring it dead and giving up. I for one expect SWM GenCon 2017 numbers to GO UP. In fact - I would be willing to bet anyone money that it will.

Beyond that - the meta is GREAT right now. We had 5 factions make the top 8, and the 2 Imperial squads were ENTIRELY different and the 2 reupublic squads were very different. Vong makes the top 8 for the first time ever (and with 2 squads!) There was a Sith/Mando squad that barely missed the top 8, and as things were could have easily won it all had things gone a little more his way (Deri lost REALLY close games). This variety in the top 8 is the best we've seen since 2013. In fact, it's second only to 2013 in the history of SWM!

Now is a great time to be a minis player. We just need to come together and commit to continuing this great game. More than anything - we have to make the commitment to simply show up and play. And by the way, that is the best part of the game!

Oh yeah, regarding SHNN; When I was hosting the show I really tried to keep it to an hour. The reason wasn't about watered down content or interest; I could talk SWM for hours with other players. The problem for me was simply that, after working a physical job this old goat couldn't stay awake. Twice towards the end of my time as host on the show I actually fell asleep lol. Fortunately, I don't think anyone noticed because when I woke up, the same people were talking. I do agree that it should be shorter if we're going to stick to the same format so that casual listeners can get what they came to hear.

This was one of my main points in starting the thread. We might be allowed 12 spots for the champs initially, but we can get more if they sell out in prereg. But we need people to buy the tickets. Those are the numbers that will help us going forward.

Please, please, please pre-buy your tickets if you know you are going to go and attend some of the competitive tourneys. It is much, much easier to ask for more tix/overflow space/etc if we sell out an event in mid-june than it is to ask for more space while at the convention when people show up with generics.

We tried it a few years back. Failed pretty bad.

We did it as part of the Jedi Challenge. It's possible it could work as a standalone. I think it's hard for people to know exactly what's legal for this type of limited format, though...I know it would be tricky for me.