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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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greentime wrote:My objection to Dodonna is that I don't see any obvious solution. I don't think every faction getting activation control is a good idea, and a piece that basically says "cancel Dodonna" is inelegant and useless in many games. I honestly think the best solution for him is to errata his card to either forced on activation per turn, or LOS to an enemy to choose. Granted, I have not thought about it very much, but I can think of a few different ways to lessen his impact without a NTMTO type ability. And I am not great at custom stats. I trust those who are designing new stuff.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/29/2010 Posts: 81
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I just reread the thread title it mentions something that called a "game". Not sure but it may cure world hunger and cancer all while being highly collectible. A truly amazing thing for sure. Now stop fighting without Vassel and get ready for Gencon!
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Rank: Muun Tactics Broker Groups: Member
Joined: 8/23/2008 Posts: 8
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Possible future counters to Dadonna?
tempo control....
Sep/R 15/40 Chairman San Hill 13 40 HP 10 Def 2 Att 10 Dmg SA: Unique. CE: Droids and characters with savage are subject to this effect. May activate 1, 2, or 3 characters each phase other than first phase of round.
YV/UC 33/40 Praetorite Vong Intendant 14 50 HP 16 Def 3 Att 10 Dmg SA: Melee, Force Immunity, Stealth. CE: Droids and characters with savage are subject to this effect. If this character has line of sight to an enemy character at start of phase may activate 1, 2, or 3 characters in that phase.
Fr/UC ?/40 Council Elder 11 20 HP 14 Def 1 Att 10 Dmg SA: Melee, Swarm 1, Ewok. CE: May activate one ewok in addition to or instead of normal activations each phase.
activations....
Sith/VR 7/40 Darth Plagueis the Wise 39 130 HP 20 Def 11 Att 20 Dmg SA: Unique, Melee, Hidden Presence (Is not considered to have a force rating for purposes of enemy attacks and abilities). FP: Force 2, Force Renewal 2, Essence of Life, Create Life 1 (Force 4, replaces turn, add a character costing 3 or less of any faction adjacent to this character). although as now have Create life usable on characters turn rather then replacing turn.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/21/2009 Posts: 406
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^ that plagueis Create Life 1 (Force 4, replaces turn, add a LIVING character costing 3 or less of any faction adjacent to this character).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 2,093
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Tempo control isn't the problem in and of itself. The problem is that there can be certain abuses at high level play. A counter could easily be a NTMTO type ability if done right. And as long as the piece isn't costed unplayable or auto-include (or is fringe and can be brought in with Lobot which I hate as not everyone should have access) then eventually the meta will shift away from tempo control if enough people start playing anti tempo control.
Haven't thought too much about tempo control but here is an exapmle of one that nerfs Yobuck/Lancer and isn't ridiculous.
After an enemy character makes its first attack of the phase it cannot move for the remainder of the phase.
It also hits mobile/GMA as well so in some games it will be awazing and in others not so hot. You make this one of those CEs for the sake of a CE on someone who you don't want to be a follower and you are all set.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 271
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billiv15 wrote:Case in point - removing Mas (I can't believe this is even a topic at this point), does nothing but make the Republic an non-competitive faction. Their commanders need the range 6 to be competitive... The same is true of Imperials.
Neither of those factions are dominating the meta. You can win with both, but if you take away mas, I hope you like playing Rebels and NR then, because that's all you would see other than the occasional Sep squad. [sarcasm]Because heaven forbid we bring the Republic and Imperial factions down to the level of Old republic, Sith, Mandalorian, and Vong.[/sarcasm] Also. Do you really believe that Rebels and New Republic would completely dominate without Dodonna? If the answer is yes, would they completely dominate without Dodonna and Rieken? Levitate is amazing, but it does not decrease the usefulness of swap. (Swap is my problem with limitless CE's). I love swap, I love levitate, I even wouldn't mind tow cable (if the faction didn't already have a limitless swap). Truthfully though, those abilities change the game so completely (in the meta area, which is what I assume you are talking about since you talk about nothing else) that they must be limited. Is there something inherently wrong with commanders leading from within 6 squares of their troops? Would you really prefer leaving half of your squad behind in the "safe" area of the battlefield? Does that feel like star wars to you?
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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I think Vong is about the only faction that needs a Booming Voice option. Granted, there are only three CE's that would benefit, but still, I think it would be interesting to have the option, since you wouldn't have to protect the commanders, and the psuedo commanders.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/9/2010 Posts: 658 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin
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Maybe just so Vong aren't limited even if they have booming voice, maybe there could be a new ability that makes CEs and non-damaging special abilities that specify a range rangeless.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/30/2009 Posts: 1,389 Location: New Zealand ( kind of by Australia)
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Ok, so I was randomly thinking about minis in my spare time ( well, actually it was at school, but shhhh ) and I thought about how to fix most of these problem minis. And the answer was simple: we already have counters for a lot of them. Now this is just whipped up on the spot while I'm typing, so don't expect a meta-changing breakthrough, but here goes: YoBuck/Lancer: Mon Mothma/new Plo Koon. Other options are Jolt, Ugnaught Boss, Nom Anor, Kel Dor BH, and Djem So/Riposte. For the Lancer, Scramble from the Mon Cal Tech Specialist. He's 4 points. Ion Gun is also rather good coupled with Death Shots as well. Heck, imagine an Uggie Droid Destroyer with Self Destruct from the Uggie Boss and a Mon Mothma! Dodonna: San Hill/Admiral Ozzel. I know these have drawbacks, but it's a start :) Rex/Cad/Dash: Super Stealth/Cloaked. Or melee beats.... Mouse Droid: Accurate/Sniper. Or Grenades/Missiles/Flamethrower etc. Mas: Override. I know this may be slightly silly, but the reason is this: Booming Voice can't go through walls/doors, so locking the door will nullify him. Of course, they might have Doombot which is annoying. Doombot: Ion Gun/Scramble/Jolt/R7/Electrostaff/EMP Grenades. Rieekan: Melee beatsticks or direct damage. A lot of this won't work, and there will be others who may scoff, but I think if we just think outside the box a little we can already deal with these so-called broken minis. Thanks, that's my rant for the day
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/25/2009 Posts: 75 Location: Kearney Nebraska
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1. Revan and mini that is worth that much and almost completly worthless in the game should be banned.
2. Han Smuggler because it should be fringe
3. all of the large base mini's because all but maybe 3 were horrible.
4. Han in carbonite because when it got pulled people were so disapointed that some people quit the game right there.
5. All Vong becuase if you are going to half ass it why even do it.
I read this thread and was disturbed because how people seem to want to play with bad figs. Why in the world would you even want to take the meat and potatoes from each faction away. Getting figs that up the power of my other figs is what kept me in the game. Making vanilla figs makes a vanilla game.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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So who is the mod who deleted my entire long post responding to the above without giving me notice at all? I can hardly believe there was nearly enough to simply delete it outright, and doing so is a great disrespect to me and your members. I hope there is going to be some serious accountability to this, but somehow, I doubt it.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2009 Posts: 177
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billiv15 wrote:So who is the mod who deleted my entire long post responding to the above without giving me notice at all? I can hardly believe there was nearly enough to simply delete it outright, and doing so is a great disrespect to me and your members. I hope there is going to be some serious accountability to this, but somehow, I doubt it. Mine appears to have vanished as well. And I will state that beyond a shadow of a doubt there was nothing objectionable in my post. What happened, here?
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/8/2008 Posts: 2,220 Location: East Coast
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As a moderator, I will post to Bill and Green that it is being looked into.
In the meantime, carry on with the discussion...
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/30/2009 Posts: 1,389 Location: New Zealand ( kind of by Australia)
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Oh, and I forgot about Thud Bug. That can deal with YoBuck and GMA Double/Twin shooters. But that means playing Vong :(
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/9/2010 Posts: 658 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin
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Darth O wrote:Oh, and I forgot about Thud Bug. That can deal with YoBuck and GMA Double/Twin shooters. But that means playing Vong :( No always. Jariah Syn has Thud Bug and Razorbug. Also, what's so bad about Vong? I know they don't have a lot of synergy in themselves, and Yobuck/Lancer takes out Vong support pretty quickly, but it's not like they're really weak. They don't have override or shooters, but fringe characters solve that problem. No tempo control for Vong can hurt, but just use some Rodian brutes to drive up the act count and that will be enough. I'm not saying Vong are amazing and destroy other factions (which they don't), I'm just saying that with the right strategy and a suitable map, like the imperial base, they can be formidable opponents to face.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/30/2009 Posts: 1,389 Location: New Zealand ( kind of by Australia)
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Yeah I realized just after posting it that Jariah has it :) I personally don't have anything against Vong, it's just that in my playgroup (3 including me), the Vong are too boring. We have a decent-sized collection between us (probably around 600-700) but only about 5 or 6 Vong! Also, we don't have any Uniques, so that may be what I'm missing out on.... lol
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 11/12/2009 Posts: 390
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Aye, Vong are pretty boring to watch and play, due to how easy it is to pick at their command structure. A pity really. They had some of the better non-unique figures. Just their commanders are so frail that it does not really count for anything.
Same with Mandos, probably one or two pieces away from teir 1 dom, and probably one of the two factions that I make real good use of the non-unique figures. (Other being republic, Senate Commandos. They surely are the Boba Fetts of the non-unique world, even though they are extremely uninteresting in Star Wars canon. Thats what the clone troopers should have been.... *Sniffled*)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 271
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Wysten wrote:Aye, Vong are pretty boring to watch and play, due to how easy it is to pick at their command structure. A pity really. They had some of the better non-unique figures. Just their commanders are so frail that it does not really count for anything.
Same with Mandos, probably one or two pieces away from teir 1 dom, and probably one of the two factions that I make real good use of the non-unique figures. (Other being republic, Senate Commandos. They surely are the Boba Fetts of the non-unique world, even though they are extremely uninteresting in Star Wars canon. Thats what the clone troopers should have been.... *Sniffled*) I would argue that the vong has the least frail commander in the entire game
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/23/2009 Posts: 1,399 Location: MD
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My Grievous DAC squad would beg to differ on that, lol. Tore Lah to pieces!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/23/2009 Posts: 1,195
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i would agree Lah is awesome. I played him last week with hunters that was really fun.
Its important to remember that the vong are extremely tough to kill and wreck havoc on jedi squads. A hunter has 70 hp and crabs lets say rex goes to shoot at one in cover he needs 8s he will prob hit twice and both of those will more then likely get crabbed so only 20 damage thats amazing for a 20 point piece.
What the vong need is some way to spread out their ce's that isnt mouse droids (that drives me insane when i run vong they hate droids) and some boost to shapers and priests. then they will be able to run 5-6 hunters and just eat everything alive thats in thier way.
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