Everyone should just come over to runboard where we are all happy :)

Now this is where I get confused.

I have asked at least a couple times since the announcement of the V-set about wouldnt something along a V-set line be considered copyright infringement or something like that and every time Ive asked, ive been told "Dont worry about it, its been taken care of."

"its been taken care of" says to me, as I would imagine to most people, that someone has looked this up, or consulted someone who knows about the law and dealing with this kind of situation.

Compare this to the Dean being worried about a, however unlikely, lawsuit or C&D order, which doesnt appear to be 'taken care of' in the least bit.

My apologies in advance if Ive got this backwards, and I understand there are other reasons for taking the V-set info off this site, not like I care, as I post more at Gamers than here; BUT, if this is such a concern for Dean (and feel free to respond personally Dean, as this is not an attack, but meerly a question), why dont you guys just skip the 'sell for cost' part of the cards, and simply do a download?

Personally, I would rather have to deal with cruddier looking cards with the assurance that Dean + co arent going to get in trouble over this, even though Im not involved with them on it, then to have a set of nicer looking cards (which I'll most likely buy) while having to keep an eye out for the giant thumb of Lucas to come sqaush all involved.

It has been taken care of, and that's through discussion with people like myself who have some experience with LFL, and how to approach things which are copyrighted and yet still work along with them. This has really nothing to do with the cards themselves, it's the fact that we are putting Star Wars characters and names on said cards. Again, it would be 100% no problem at all if it were all just free for download, because then it would fall under an 'art' category. But, as soon as any money starts exchanging hands, then it draws attention. If said money is only covering printing costs, it is still not a problem legally, but it could cause serious problems. The issue is that none of us have the finances in order to fight LFL if they really wanted to make an issue out of it. We might be 100% in the right, but if they tried to take SWMGamers/Dean to court in order to stop us from doing the V Sets, we might obviously win the lawsuit, but we would have to have the finances in order to do that. Frankly, none of us are that rich. So, in order to avoid that possibility altogether, then we try to keep things 'under the radar' a little bit, so to speak. We make a big deal about the V Set and such all we want. But as far as 'selling' any actual cards, we be a little more discreet. ;)

@billiv15-

No, I don't know half of what's happened, and I admitted that in my previous posts. I said that I knew Dean and DarthJak had some sort of history or prior fallout that I knew nothing about. However, the other grievances Dean had against the site I did understand, and I addressed them, and given the information that I do have, people are overreacting to this. In a nutshell, that's all I said.



[removed - a bit too sarcastic there, tone that down in the future - sf]

I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are yours, which is a perfect segue to my next point...

[quote=billiv15]...so your opinion is a waste of time, and what's worse, it's dangerous and borderline insulting...]

Again, I am just as much entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, and I'm not entirely certain that you were appointed to judge whether people's opinions are a waste of time, so don't be hypocritical. I also apologize if my posts have insulted you, even though my posts had absolutely nothing to do with you. If you are speaking for Dean, don't. I'm sure he's competent enough to decide for himself whether my comments were insulting to him.

As far as my opinion being dangerous, unless you are hinting that my post made someone so angry that they are going to get my IP address from Vassal and track me down, I'm certain there are more dangerous things in the world than an opinion. At this point, I think we're past the "danger" stage of this issue.

As far as my post being a waste of time, I certainly apologize if you don't agree with my opinion. However, the whole "waste of time" thing was a poor way of trying to say so; it wasn't my decision for you to read my post, so it's your own fault for wasting your time reading my post. What the heck do you think a forum like this is for? It's purpose is so people can post and discuss their opinions. Nobody is forced, or even obligated, to read another's posts. If you think what I say is a waste of time, don't read it.

At this point, I feel like using language that some people may consider inappropriate. However, I will not, considering that: we are on a public forum, that I have good enough judgement not to, and that I can take simple insults and criticisms without using profanity, apparently unlike certain other people on this forum, who need a moderator to clean up after their act.

By the way, I appreciate your most recent comment, ChuckaFett. I realize that I'm probably one of the guilty people you were hinting at in your post, but I whole-heartedly agree and feel as though most people involved in this issue are what you described. I made the mistake of getting myself involved in this issue like many of the "trolls" have, and I regret it, but at least I am continuing to have input on the issue instead of coming in, making a few negative jousts, and then disappearing. I also realize that someone in the future will probably quote what I have just said, perhaps taking it out of context, and trying to bash me again. I say, "Go right ahead." It doesn't hurt me any, and I can take it without a moderator following behind me with red ink (and no, that was not an attack on the moderators. It was a "negative joust" at the people who have to use profanity to get a point across, whether that point is valid or not).

Mod edit: Removed/reworded some potentially baiting remarks. - sf

well the action of "only on this site" for post and reveals is gonna get you in trouble. Advertising revenue has been deemed as viable revenue so in a nutshell when you prevent other sites from showing, discussing, distributing your cards yet take money in from advertising on your site (that has the exclusive content) its not public content anymore and thus will put you in violation. To make it public, it has to be PUBLIC, not restricted to one site that is gaining money from advertising (and from what I've seen of SWGamers, they have ads that gain them money, so unless they open the discussion and previews to all sites, it would be deemed as private to that site only, thus putting them in violation). To get around this, the big powers over there need to lift their ban on previews and discussions from other sites, open them up to public domain, and stop worrying. If they keep the "ban" in effect, the revenue generated by ads on their site would be deemed as profit, thus putting them in violation.

No charge for this answer.

wow, that makes sense.
A wondered about the no profit will be made, so we're ok opinion.
can i open a non-profit day care and use artoo on my sign?

I did not say profit, I said revenue. HUGE difference there. Profit is revenue less expenses. Revenue is ANY monetary gain coming in. Huge difference. A non-profit organization can still have HUGE revenues coming in, they just have their expenses equal out. Now if you had a day care and didn't accept a penny from parents, schools, government, churches, donations, charities, or the guy living in the van down by the river, you might be able to pull that off... assuming, that is, you satisfy the other three prongs of the test.

Revenue is just one of the four prongs of the test, and by keeping the VR set locked behind closed doors on a site that you have to register to view and that collects revenue from the content on the site (ie. the ads), well I'd say, and I'm no judge here, just a recovering attorney, they'd be hard pressed over there to satisfy that prong of the test. Of course, for the right price, I can easily argue the other point :)

You do not have to be logged in to access the articles and downloads on Gamers. Presumeably, that is where the V card downloads will be available. Previews of the cards are a minor concern, the actual release and availability is what is important.

Ok, and thats all fine, but it doesnt answer my question. The question is: If there is a possibility, even a small one, that Lucas could try to fight something being done by the V-set project (images, cards, or anything else at all), then why bother selling anything at all, even just for cost? Why not have them be available ONLY as a FREE download for card images?

I understand Lucas may not win whatever case he may want to open, but as you said, none of you have the finances to fight against him in court. So, WHY TAKE THE RISK AT ALL?

Like I said in the last post, Im not involved in this at all, other than playtesting, arent bffs with Dean/ Bill, etc, but still, Id rather have crappy looking cards that I printed for free, knowing that Dean isnt going to get in any trouble for this thing, than pay $20 for a better looking set of cards(yes, I know its not requred) and know that there is a possibility that Dean could get in trouble for this.

So, one last time, my question: WHY TAKE THAT RISK?

I was under teh impression that you didnt even have to have the regular card for minis, as long as you have a copy of the stats, which I coulda sworn was in the rulebook.

Anyway, if someone showed up without them, I would hope the head judge could look them over to make sure they were right.