you say that you will have to be able to use her cunning attack to get up to 120 damage, but with mace you have to crit. To me personally i think there is less chance of critting someone, even with a 17-20 to roll than successfully getting your cunning attack. and generally if people are burning up all of maces force points to try to reroll for that crit than they arent going to have points for absorb or reflect.

I don't personally think he is broken. He has very little defense against shooters, and in that yobuck squad neither of your big beats have alot of ranged defenses. against a well played Handmaiden squad or a cad bane squad they would go down quick.

and yes against an all melee squad they will do far better, with a few exceptions. Ians winning squad from gen con this years still would have decimated a mace/yobuck squad sheerly because of the battle masters. not only do they have block and lightsaber assault they also have leap to avoid anything you put in to block them in. Plus bastilla stops your swaps.

Unfortunately I will not be able to attend the tourney as of right now, work/family duties going on, but I am trying to get it arranged where I can make it. Would I run Mace, most likely unless of course HAN, GH smiles at me from his case and I give into him, lol.

Now on to the discussion, You also have to be able to use lightsaber assault, and with pieces such as thon, palleon, and the new mace, it will be harder and harder to get it off. So I think I will stick with the lucky rolls, because he is still doing damage even if he doesn't get the role. And I am pretty sure that in your play testing it was kavar, and dash rendar and aton, if this is the same play report I am thinking of, so of course the three of them should kill him if he does not role any criticals, but like bill says this is a skirmish game not an individual on the rest of the squad, so I think that the combo of mace, wookie jedi, general skywalker/ or mace, darman, and ki adi mundi would give kavar, aton and dash a good run for its money.

Hey this thread is off topic so u guys know. We were talking about how Mace windu is cheesy in general my group is the not the tournament type I think I am the only one in the group who tries to play top tier on occassion. I am the other player Darth_Reignir was talking about who used Mace windu I killed Darth Vader unleashed in one turn ran right up to Vader unleashed rolled 17 then 19 then 12 then still did 40 damage to a vaders apprentice who was next to vader. I was like oh no big deal but play group was really angry. A couple weeks later we play again I played mace again ran up to a levianthan full health killed it in one turn rolled 3 crits killed him and one turn. I can tell you when I did that it really took the fun out of the game was very demoralizing for the player who played the levianthan. My group is talking about taking away Mace Windu flurry and tripple damage . The only thing mace needed to be up to date was greater mobile. Vapad mastery should have been just crits on 17 through 20. I was just curious what other people thought are group change on windu. So we could use him. I really want to use this figure but i dont want to kill a full 82 point beat stick in one turn. It just takes the fun out of the game.

Thing is, neither Vader Unleasher or his apprentice have any defensive abilities against melee. They are easy to kill, and not particularly good figs. Try doing that to Vader Scourge.

I'm not sure how this thread has gone off topic, seems to me like that's exactly what the rest of us were talking about. At least it's definitely what I have been talking about.



Surely you recognize that those examples are just luck-based, right? There is a 4% chance of getting 2 crits on the first 2 of Mace's attacks. That means that you actually had less of a chance of that happening then of having BFBH just Disintegrate Vader. The chances of getting 3 crits on the Leviathan is even less likely.

Sample sizes really have to be considered. If you played your first game of SWM ever and played against BFBH, and he got a bunch of Disintegrations off and tore your squad apart with all of his 20s, that would suck, and you would probably think he is broken, or undercosted, or overpowered, or cheesy, or whatever (I'm considering all of those kinds of words to be basically synonyms in this situation). But to be honest, you would be wrong. BFBH isn't a very strong piece, has not been considered tier 1 basically ever, and is not any of those words. It's a perception thing, and when talking about anecdotal evidence you have to have a large sample size of examples to make a truly educated opinion on the matter. That's why we playtest, and especially why we have a lot of playtesters. During playtesting, you bet there were games where Mace got lots of crits and demolished the other team. But there were also other games where he got few or none. We used playtesting to get a pretty hefty sample size to evaluate, and determined that he's not too powerful.

On the other hand, of course, if your group is determined that he's too good, change him or ban him as you see fit. You have to do whatever is best for your group, and whatever lets you guys have the most fun. In my opinion, I think that changing him is unnecessary, and for me personally it would make the game less fun, in the same way that I have no desire for the Lancer Droid to get changed, even though I really don't like playing with or against that piece. I prefer to just use it as an opportunity to improve my play and learn how to beat it.

No more fun than rolling 1 for all your inits, never rolling above a 7 when attacking, or never making a save 11 all game (I had that issue a few years ago at Gencon, could not make a Thud Bug save to keep my figs from not being activated). The thing with Mace, it's all luck. You do realize, that rolling above a 16 is not easy to do? Yes, it is a bit more common than a lot of things, but there is no way you can control it. It is the EXACT same issue with Disentegration or Immediate Reserves.

yeah that is true if they have bastila in the squad, but i am pretty sure he did not have bastila in his squad in this report. If you want to use the points to put kavar, bastila, dash, and aton in the same squad be my guest, I would love to see that army.

I could agree that if Mace only rolls average he is just ok, no problem with agreeing to that, but It is actually kind of hard to prevent his damage considering if he wanted to he could just absorb your block/defense. The bodygaurd is an ok way to deal with it, but the bodyguard is dying and mace still gets his extra attack so not a bad trade off there. I do not think that just because if anyone rolls high they are going to be devastating, I mean a crit is a crit that is cool, you get to do extra damage awesome, but when mace rolls a crit, he does triple damage, gets flurry attack, and probably destroys your piece.
The disentegration ability is only on a natural 20 and he can not reroll attacks, and he only has two attacks, not three, and he does not get an extra attack, sure he auto kills them, but mace pretty much does as well.

Lol, working on it, working on it. Should be a good showing anyways. If no one runs Mace Windu I will have to get with the Atlanta guys about going to there hometown and trying to use him there.

you can bodygaurd the 20 from boba fett and you can reflect the damage back to him, you still die, but he takes the damage as well. Yeah there are ways to prevent some of the damage that Mace throws out, but that it true of every melee piece, so what is your argument? that people with makashi are good against melee people of course... they are, but i have yet to see a competitive squad using someone with that ability same goes with parry, other then jareal, but she would get toasted by mace.