Mace and Obi have laser swords (vroom vroom) lol

He would tow Obi in front unactivated and have rex shoot from behind him. +5 vs 22/26 + SSM. He did the same thing later with Mace on cover and Rex shooting. Gerry's guys needed like 17's I think to hit. So trevor just killed one or two per round and held down Gambit. He also had Dr E to heal if a few shots got through.

on the way home, I asked Ger what the attack was of naboo troppers.
with or without opportunist? he sez
without, said I, I can do the math
5, +9, w/opp. was pretty low of an att., he was realying on 15 twinning shooters,law of avg. and stuff
did you combine fire? sez I
the look on his poor face broke my 'lil heart
and it stacks doen't it?queries he
yes,I replied nodding my head

I want a re-match, he laughed, dialing Trevor on his mobile.

lesson learned-don't forget about the basics my friends,combined fire is an excelent rule that very few players use

Quite right but let me tell you that the extra +4 could have made a difference on at least three 16's I rolled against Critdu. No complaints here but man I sure would have like to remembered about CF yesterday!

I would have liked to see that myself Scott.

So you're saying the entire point of this thread, including the title and the original post, is null? That's cool.

Seriously, you have a bit of a point (although I think you are overstating some things and understating others) when you say that it's not fair to say "This piece is/isn't tier 1" and then say "You can't call individual pieces tier 1/not tier 1". But that applies to you too. By saying that you have to look at entire squads to judge piece, you then make any statement about "X piece is/isn't tier 1" fallacious.

If your post is true then you are, in fact, wrong to say "Mace is tier 1" in the exact same way that someone is wrong to say "Mace is not tier 1". You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

These two things are 100% mutually exclusive. Either you CAN look at a piece individually and say that Mace is tier 1, or you CAN'T look at pieces individually and at best say that Trevor's whole squad is tier 1, but you can't comment on whether the individual pieces are tier 1 or not.

This arguement will circle endlessly. So let's drop it. Some will judge pieces individually, some will base it on squads. It's all opinion. Continuing this train will just lead to tempers flairing.

You can look at him in any style or form that you want. He is tier 1. Squad building, you can build a tier 1 squad (and win gencon) with him. Look at him individually, 1 on 1 against 90- 95% of the pieces in the game, he wins. So.... I'm missing how he is not tier 1?

This is a meaningless argument, but its just principle when people can't admit they were wrong. When looking at a tier 1 piece, do you not look at them as a stand alone piece and as a piece that can fit into squads? Do you not try and see if you can get your pieces point cost "out" of him? Are they tough to take down? Can they put out enough damage? And probably a few others that I didn't say. But to these 5 questions, I would easily give Mace a 10, 9.5,9, 10, 10 ( 11 if he Crits more than once!!! ) Respectively.

But, then again, I could just be completely ignorant. And if that is the case, I lay open the floor for anyone to name a piece that they think is Tier 1, and then explain to me how he is tier 1, and how Mace is not. Maybe handicap it to faction specific? Since Mace is handicapped to only Republic squads(Could you imagine him as a Fringe Follower!!!), unlike Cad Bane, who can be in any squad? Or maybe that is the only thing that can be Tier 1? A Fringe follower that can benefit from countless CE to be good?

And Sithborg, Don't block this thread, I'm sincerely interested in an intelligent response from anyone who can help me understand this dilemma.

Cheers

Shmi15

A lot of it is a question of semantics - but I think maybe Tier 1 is about balance; being a well rounded piece who can compete against lots of different squad types.

In my opinion, Mace is Tier 1 at 100 and 150 points (if anyone plays those anymore) but he needs some help at 200 to cover his biggest weakness; that his ranged defense isn't very strong and he needs help so he doesn't get shot to pieces by heavy shooter squads. While other pieces could help with this too, like Panaka for swap or a Gungan Shieldbearer for Energy Shield, I think GOWK is the best option as a partner. A second weakness Mace has is variability - really you want him to roll a crit in every set of attacks to justify his cost, and if you miss out on that at crucial points you're going to struggle with him - and people get round that by using General Skywalker to up his damage.

On the other hand, I think R2-D2 Astromech Droid is indisputably Tier 1 - you're going to play him at any Republic squad at any point level, and he's going to enhance any type of squad.

Mace is definitely one of the stronger pieces in the game - but he needs help to be great against some other squads at 200 points.

Like Sithborg, I designed a squad to compete with Mace. Having Josh in my backyard and knowing Trevor also liked Mace, it was imperative to me to be able to handle him. I only faced the Mace/Gowk combo once in the championship and beat it. I said to Josh on the way home that although my squad could beat that combo consistently, his squad... and Trevor's... were better. They had fewer bad matchups than mine. It seems that there are as many definitions of 'Tier 1' as there are players. My definition would be in the matchups. How many good matchups do you have and what are the chances you'll see them? What are the bad matchups and are those squads prevalent in the current meta? Further, in those bad matchups can you make adjustments like Trevor and Josh did against the Naboo swarms? It's very subjective. All I know is despite the fact that I think my squad could handle the combo, that combo is better than mine and deserves to be considered tier 1.