could the zyg stay anyone if it was only speed instead of double speed?

+1

I think it depends on what else is done with the power level of the Imperial troops. At +9/20dmg (i.e. before Needa/Daala), I think the Raxus Prime could have the current Zygerrian range (double speed) and it would be okay. If Daala's CE drops to Charging from Charging+10, then the Raxus Prime can still do +17/30dmg with Daala/Needa. (Or even still do the 40dmg with a Stormtrooper Commander.) How much range is too much for that? With speed instead of double speed on the Zygerrian, it maxes out at 30 squares per round but you pay dearly for it, spend 4 activations to get there, and lose a chance at an extra attack (Zyg x2, Flim, Charge).

On one hand, I don't think the deep strikes are the most powerful part of the squad. (At least the snowtrooper versions I've run.) On the other hand, I do think it's one of the more fun parts of the squad.

Probably safer to just switch to fringe, though. The Zygerrian could be just as broken with other factions.

I guess the only counter to this right now is ABM or Disruptive? And with Daala, since imps have access to counter CE cancellation, there is no counter?

I do agree that Yobuck is one of the the things that has the best chance of handling the different Daala builds - maybe something with Elite Scout Troopers could do it, but in return they will struggle against the high activation Snow Trooper and Raxus squads which I think are much stronger overall.

I just think that if we previously had 20 or 40 or however many viable squads, suddenly having a squad that only 2-3 other "normal" squads can handle reliably, and which can clownstomp a bunch of other previously viable squads, is unhealthy. I think the combination of a lot of movement and a lot of damage puts it in a different league than most of the other squads that we've been used to seeing, and is going to lead to the kind of power creep we haven't seen in the v-sets. And apart from you at GenCon in 2012, I don't think many other people have had much success with Yobuck in the last couple of years. But it'd be good to see more results from FrostyCon and HamilCon before we get too carried away.

Except this is charging fire +10. They still get to shoot, they don't have to be adjacent, but they get +10 on top of it. The ability didn't exist before set 6.

I remember when PTing Daala and she gave furious assault, we all agreed it was too much. I suggested that they could use that same mechanic but only attack ADJACENT enemies. Once again - keep in mind this was a PT WITHOUT the Zygerrian OR the Snow Trooper Officer

That's a nice squad Mando but its one trick and Ani can get smoked pretty quickly by only 2 Snows.

Its the kind of squad that *might* perform well against Daala but loses to almost everything else.

Its the problem when a meta becomes restrictive, you start looking at all these t2 squads that might help against the new big evil but when it comes down to it, they are still T2 squads.

I was curious so I dug this up. It is part of the playtest report on Daala.

I was actually Daala's opponent in this playtest (I was playtesting the new Biggs).

Keep in mind once again this was BEFORE the Zygerrian Slaver and Snowtrooper Officer were finalized, and when Daala gave out furious assault.

This Daala squad is HORRIBLY un-optimized (even without the Zygerrian and the Snowtrooper Officer), but still won. With 4 regular stormtroopers.

Daala. 27
GARY. 16
Ozzel. 11
Veers. 21
Piet. 20
Mas. 8
Moff Disra. 25
Film. 15
G. T. Clone 26
R7. 8
Stormy x4. 16*
Bothan sabatour 7*



Obviously Furious Assault was swapped for a brand new ability Charging Fire +10

As far as I can tell, Daala was never playtested without giving Furious Assault. (At least there was no report posted) Ditto for her being playtested with a Zygerrian Slaver.

The Zygerrian Slaver was only playtested with Poggle Bombs.

The Snowtrooper Officer was only playtested once, and with neither Daala nor a Zygerrian


It's an important lesson for a few reasons:

A. It shows how important playtesting is to the process. We have seen a severe decline in the number of people wanting to playtest, as well as the number of good playtests.
B. It shows how pieces with intense synergy must be designed in separate sets, or designed in tandem and playtested together.

The Zygerrian Slaver wasn't changed from causing 10 damage at the end to simply moving double speed until April 8th. Before this it wasn't a very good option for stormtroopers. The last test with Daala was on March 17 (and that was with her giving out furious assault). There were significant changes to both Daala and the Zygerrian making them synergize like crazy, but they were never playtested together. The one and only playtest on the Snowtrooper Officer was after the last Daala test as well, and he was tested with Vader Agent of Evil and G.A.Thrawn.

None of the 3 pieces in question were ever playtested with even one of the others, much less all 3 together.


Now please don't misinterpret my post. My reason for posting all this is to show how important playtesting is, and hopefully raise interest for people being willing to put the time into doing it.

Synergies are not always readily apparent instantly. Especially during the process when many things change along the way.

I hope this inspires more people to volunteer to playtest in the future. It is very important to the vsets success

Set 8 will in fact be a smaller set.

Honestly, the general product overall is fine. I imagine that there's enough of a framework with the 1000+ pieces we have already that a lot of pieces are quite straightforward to price/pitch correctly, It's just this piece, where it attempted to create a whole new squad type, bought a whole lot of underused old Imperial pieces back into play, and interacted in unexpected ways with other new pieces in the same set, that's really been a problem that we've found. Nothing else in the v-sets has been so extreme - I think a few things in the first couple of sets could have done with some minor adjustments - but this has been the one piece that we've found as extreme. And of course we're waiting to see if other people have the same experience with Daala.