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Vset 7, Spoilers inside. Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:51:08 AM
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adamb0nd wrote:
Would you ever want to use a shamed one over a mouse or uggy though? Even a rodian seems like it might be a better option.

TimmerB123 wrote:

As of now it seems like the most likely use is simply rounding out an all Vong squad with the last 3 points to spend.

TheHutts
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:32:34 PM
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So like a Talon Karrde IB kind of mechanic for Vong? It makes sense thematically for Vong to have faction pure squads.

It's actually pretty cool what v-sets have done recently:
- Seps - encouraging Fringe bounty hunters in Separatists (with Cad Bane Bounty Hunter) - it makes sense, since it's the faction where Fringe bounty hunters kind of belong.
- Imperials - encouraging Imperial-centric squads with Daala's Prideful (may as well run as many Imperial pieces as you can with that bonus)
- Fringe - making Fringe only squads viable with Talon Karrde.
- New Republic - not to the same extent as the above, but Luke GH synergises well with Fringe force users.
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:25:56 PM
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All I will say is that there is a lot of love coming for the Vong in Vset 7. Shamed Ones true potential will become clear as more pieces are revealved. Bomb
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:46:08 PM
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Must be a pretty decent volume of Vong pieces too - if Shamed One (which starts with S) is #55, and there are rumoured to be some in the micro-set, there could be almost as many Vong as there are in all the WOTC sets put together.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:58:46 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:


But there might be something more . . . Cool


I can see something along the lines of a new version of Nom Anor under the Yu'shaa persona giving the shamed ones a decent boost. Or perhaps even an entire Jeedai Heretic subfaction.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:41:33 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Deathwielded wrote:

Twin means she will be a good AoO person for Malgus' Face your Destiny. (forcing them to move adjacent even if they must get hit with AoO's) Unsure

Hadn't even really considered this option. That's smart, since she one of the cheaper twin attacker in the sith.


I've been trying the extreme version of that with little success:

--March of Death--
72 Darth Malgus, The False Emperor
42 Lomi Plo
36 Darth Maladi
31 Kaliyo Djannis
16 R7 Astromech Droid x2
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(200pts. 7 activations)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/131337/march-of-death

Fun idea, but hasn't worked so great in practice. Alema Rar would be a shoo in for this squad.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:46:28 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
adamb0nd wrote:
Would you ever want to use a shamed one over a mouse or uggy though? Even a rodian seems like it might be a better option.

TimmerB123 wrote:

As of now it seems like the most likely use is simply rounding out an all Vong squad with the last 3 points to spend.



I hope they never get any decent boosts. I've been the one clamoring for more 3 (or even 2) point tech options, but I'm not looking for swarm options at that point level. But if they are strictly worse than a Worker (on a point per point basis) and the only reason to take them is blocking and activations for the forthcoming "Vong only" boost, I applaud it!
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 5:22:02 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
Must be a pretty decent volume of Vong pieces too - if Shamed One (which starts with S) is #55, and there are rumoured to be some in the micro-set, there could be almost as many Vong as there are in all the WOTC sets put together.


Not THAT many. (For reference WotC released 15 Vong, if I counted correctly. Which is a very sad, low number.) But there are a good handful. Vong comprise the second most of any faction by numbers of Vset7 + the Invasion microset combined.

The microset is called Invasion after all.
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 5:24:51 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
adamb0nd wrote:
Would you ever want to use a shamed one over a mouse or uggy though? Even a rodian seems like it might be a better option.

TimmerB123 wrote:

As of now it seems like the most likely use is simply rounding out an all Vong squad with the last 3 points to spend.



I hope they never get any decent boosts. I've been the one clamoring for more 3 (or even 2) point tech options, but I'm not looking for swarm options at that point level. But if they are strictly worse than a Worker (on a point per point basis) and the only reason to take them is blocking and activations for the forthcoming "Vong only" boost, I applaud it!


They can't ever be shaped or scarred, and we talked about how useful the current CEs are for them. Perhaps they have their uses outside of attacking.

FlyingArrow wrote:
the forthcoming "Vong only" boost


oh, and . . .

Rumors spread quickly. I never confirmed this was happening.
markedman247
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 5:51:09 PM
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I'd hate to see the Vong become more useful. We need to keep the power structure the way it is. /sarcasm
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 6:03:15 PM
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markedman247 wrote:
I'd hate to see the Vong become more useful. We need to keep the power structure the way it is. /sarcasm


One of the major goals in this set is to continue to give more squad options for competitive play. We are striving to not simply give pieces that make the best squads better. Rather we are aiming to bring the factions that need help (Vong chief among them) up to speed, but also to give wholly different squad types a shot in other factions.
Deathwielded
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:45:48 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Deathwielded wrote:

Twin means she will be a good AoO person for Malgus' Face your Destiny. (forcing them to move adjacent even if they must get hit with AoO's) Unsure

Hadn't even really considered this option. That's smart, since she one of the cheaper twin attacker in the sith.


I've been trying the extreme version of that with little success:

--March of Death--
72 Darth Malgus, The False Emperor
42 Lomi Plo
36 Darth Maladi
31 Kaliyo Djannis
16 R7 Astromech Droid x2
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(200pts. 7 activations)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/131337/march-of-death

Fun idea, but hasn't worked so great in practice. Alema Rar would be a shoo in for this squad.


Indeed! Alema and maybe Vestara Khai would both be good lower costing characters for that squad type, that way you can make the team more balanced. I would only have one or two twin attackers in that kind of squad ( I think it would be a nightmare to try and setup 4 pieces for the Death March)
BTW TimmerB123 this is actually the exact squad that I got the idea from, it was FlyingArrow's idea originally.ThumpUp
Mando
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:12:24 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
markedman247 wrote:
I'd hate to see the Vong become more useful. We need to keep the power structure the way it is. /sarcasm


One of the major goals in this set is to continue to give more squad options for competitive play. We are striving to not simply give pieces that make the best squads better. Rather we are aiming to bring the factions that need help (Vong chief among them) up to speed, but also to give wholly different squad types a shot in other factions.


I think the Vong have already gotten plenty of boosts, we just need to be patient and see how they pan out in the meta. The vong faction is probably the most mobile faction in the game right now. I don't think they need much more help in movement breakers. Personally, I think handing out Blastbug to all vong warriors was way to much power creep since there isn't anything you can do to prevent that damage at all. A Vong squad with the new Nom Anor can start 6 squares out from their starting area, then vong warriors can charge 12 squares & throw a blast bug 6 squares. That is 24 movement! If you have the preatorite vong scouts, they can pretty much reach anyone in the first round with their blastbugs depending on the map/door situation. So I say we need to be patient with the Vong pieces we already do have and not overreact since the Vong aren't in the top 4 in all tournaments right now. I think they can be if people played them. We just don't really know what the meta looks like right now after gencon, and once regionals start happening we'll get a good feel of where the vong are. Before then, to introduce even more gamechangers to the vong faction is premature, imo.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:21:55 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
the forthcoming "Vong only" boost


oh, and . . .

Rumors spread quickly. I never confirmed this was happening.


True - but it looked like a pretty strong hint to me. Laugh

Maybe you were just talking about the usefulness of the new piece in a faction-pure game. Smile
Deathwielded
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:06:09 PM
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The bolded text is my responses:

Mando wrote:


I think the Vong have already gotten plenty of boosts, we just need to be patient and see how they pan out in the meta. The vong faction is probably the most mobile faction in the game right now.

I got to disagree I think the Republic is the most mobile faction with the most movement breaking options.
I don't think they need much more help in movement breakers.

They have enough help getting into the action now for some viable squads, but more won't hurt.

Personally, I think handing out Blastbug to all vong warriors was way to much power creep since there isn't anything you can do to prevent that damage at all.
It is extremely strong! Not the direction I woulda gone with the Vong, but I will take what I can get.Wink

A Vong squad with the new Nom Anor can start 6 squares out from their starting area, then vong warriors can charge 12 squares & throw a blast bug 6 squares. That is 24 movement!

I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstand what Charging Fire can do. It cannot use anything that replaces attacks since it Replaces you turn. So no they don't have quite that long of a reach.

If you have the preatorite vong scouts, they can pretty much reach anyone in the first round with their blastbugs depending on the map/door situation. So I say we need to be patient with the Vong pieces we already do have and not overreact since the Vong aren't in the top 4 in all tournaments right now. I think they can be if people played them. We just don't really know what the meta looks like right now after gencon, and once regionals start happening we'll get a good feel of where the vong are. Before then, to introduce even more gamechangers to the vong faction is premature, imo.


I think the Vong definitely still needs some help. Have they come a long way? YES Absolutely, in fact it is impossible to overstate how much better they are thanks to the V-sets. (especially with the War Coordinator, can you say Auto include!)
Personally I would rather see them get something that makes them Melee beasts (like they should have been all along) The stats we got for the Warriors are just sad, I would like to see some crazy good stat boosts for the Vong I'm talking +6 defense. Maybe a commander that gives Melee Duelist? Something to give them the edge against Ranged characters.
Another way I would boost the Vong would be to give them really cheap Reserves options and I mean REALLY cheap, like it doesn't effect the cost at all. (okay maybe exaggerating)
I think Prideful would be a good bonus for them just with a higher costing character.
Mando
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:39:27 PM
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Deathwielded wrote:
The bolded text is my responses:

Mando wrote:


I think the Vong have already gotten plenty of boosts, we just need to be patient and see how they pan out in the meta. The vong faction is probably the most mobile faction in the game right now.

I got to disagree I think the Republic is the most mobile faction with the most movement breaking options.
I don't think they need much more help in movement breakers.

They have enough help getting into the action now for some viable squads, but more won't hurt.

Personally, I think handing out Blastbug to all vong warriors was way to much power creep since there isn't anything you can do to prevent that damage at all.
It is extremely strong! Not the direction I woulda gone with the Vong, but I will take what I can get.Wink

A Vong squad with the new Nom Anor can start 6 squares out from their starting area, then vong warriors can charge 12 squares & throw a blast bug 6 squares. That is 24 movement!

I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstand what Charging Fire can do. It cannot use anything that replaces attacks since it Replaces you turn. So no they don't have quite that long of a reach.

If you have the preatorite vong scouts, they can pretty much reach anyone in the first round with their blastbugs depending on the map/door situation. So I say we need to be patient with the Vong pieces we already do have and not overreact since the Vong aren't in the top 4 in all tournaments right now. I think they can be if people played them. We just don't really know what the meta looks like right now after gencon, and once regionals start happening we'll get a good feel of where the vong are. Before then, to introduce even more gamechangers to the vong faction is premature, imo.


I think the Vong definitely still needs some help. Have they come a long way? YES Absolutely, in fact it is impossible to overstate how much better they are thanks to the V-sets. (especially with the War Coordinator, can you say Auto include!)
Personally I would rather see them get something that makes them Melee beasts (like they should have been all along) The stats we got for the Warriors are just sad, I would like to see some crazy good stat boosts for the Vong I'm talking +6 defense. Maybe a commander that gives Melee Duelist? Something to give them the edge against Ranged characters.
Another way I would boost the Vong would be to give them really cheap Reserves options and I mean REALLY cheap, like it doesn't effect the cost at all. (okay maybe exaggerating)
I think Prideful would be a good bonus for them just with a higher costing character.


Thanks for reminding me Charging Fire replaces turn, I forgot about that part of it. Still the Vong can move quite far with that CE that grants Charging Fire. You also have Jakan's CE which is also a good movement breaker. Quednaks are also a really good piece that can move very far (especially since they are warriors). The republic have a few options for movement breakers, true, but i think the vong have more that can effect multiple people. I don't think Prideful would be helpful for the Vong, as they already do get insanely high attack and damage. I think your point about more defense is spot on! Maybe not +6 but maybe a +2 or +3 since we have that shaper that gives +4 def against ranged attacks to people that have Voduum Crab armor.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:51:49 PM
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If we're talking about squad wide movement, I'd go for those Daala squads over anything the Vong have - the ability to have most of your squad run 12 then shoot is powerful. Vong need that extra movement to compensate for being melee.
markedman247
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 3:57:40 PM
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Mando wrote:
Deathwielded wrote:
The bolded text is my responses:

Mando wrote:


I think the Vong have already gotten plenty of boosts, we just need to be patient and see how they pan out in the meta. The vong faction is probably the most mobile faction in the game right now.

I got to disagree I think the Republic is the most mobile faction with the most movement breaking options.
I don't think they need much more help in movement breakers.

They have enough help getting into the action now for some viable squads, but more won't hurt.

Personally, I think handing out Blastbug to all vong warriors was way to much power creep since there isn't anything you can do to prevent that damage at all.
It is extremely strong! Not the direction I woulda gone with the Vong, but I will take what I can get.Wink

A Vong squad with the new Nom Anor can start 6 squares out from their starting area, then vong warriors can charge 12 squares & throw a blast bug 6 squares. That is 24 movement!

I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstand what Charging Fire can do. It cannot use anything that replaces attacks since it Replaces you turn. So no they don't have quite that long of a reach.

If you have the preatorite vong scouts, they can pretty much reach anyone in the first round with their blastbugs depending on the map/door situation. So I say we need to be patient with the Vong pieces we already do have and not overreact since the Vong aren't in the top 4 in all tournaments right now. I think they can be if people played them. We just don't really know what the meta looks like right now after gencon, and once regionals start happening we'll get a good feel of where the vong are. Before then, to introduce even more gamechangers to the vong faction is premature, imo.


I think the Vong definitely still needs some help. Have they come a long way? YES Absolutely, in fact it is impossible to overstate how much better they are thanks to the V-sets. (especially with the War Coordinator, can you say Auto include!)
Personally I would rather see them get something that makes them Melee beasts (like they should have been all along) The stats we got for the Warriors are just sad, I would like to see some crazy good stat boosts for the Vong I'm talking +6 defense. Maybe a commander that gives Melee Duelist? Something to give them the edge against Ranged characters.
Another way I would boost the Vong would be to give them really cheap Reserves options and I mean REALLY cheap, like it doesn't effect the cost at all. (okay maybe exaggerating)
I think Prideful would be a good bonus for them just with a higher costing character.


Thanks for reminding me Charging Fire replaces turn, I forgot about that part of it. Still the Vong can move quite far with that CE that grants Charging Fire. You also have Jakan's CE which is also a good movement breaker. Quednaks are also a really good piece that can move very far (especially since they are warriors). The republic have a few options for movement breakers, true, but i think the vong have more that can effect multiple people. I don't think Prideful would be helpful for the Vong, as they already do get insanely high attack and damage. I think your point about more defense is spot on! Maybe not +6 but maybe a +2 or +3 since we have that shaper that gives +4 def against ranged attacks to people that have Voduum Crab armor.


The good attack/defense thing is a very recent development. If it wasn't for the shaper, the damage would be so sub-par C-3PO would do better damage. Most of their pieces do base 10. Kiss your butt good-bye vs. DR10 and Shields.

You weren't playing during the dark times after Universe when they received very little support.
Deathwielded
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:47:44 PM
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Mando wrote:
Still the Vong can move quite far with that CE that grants Charging Fire. You also have Jakan's CE which is also a good movement breaker. Quednaks are also a really good piece that can move very far (especially since they are warriors). The republic have a few options for movement breakers, true, but i think the vong have more that can effect multiple people.


The Republic is still the most mobile faction (not saying the Vong aren't a pretty mobile faction) lets see we have: Gallopers (Yoda on Kybuck, Bombad General Jar Jar Binks on Kaadu and new Dinobi) A good strafer (Anakin Skywalker on STAP) Order 66 GMA (Captain Rex who is one of the best shooters himself a great boostable character would be the Infantry Support Platform which was pretty mobile to begin with) Jedi gettin GMA (Cin Drallig, Jedi Battlemaster who is also pretty awesome) If you don't want GMA you have Master Yoda and his CE as an option, plus you also have Jedi Master Jorus C'baoth who can give you even MORE movement bonus' to the Jedi, handing out master Speed cheaply with Coleman, Lightsaber assualt and even Phasing from Darkwoman (beat that!) which means Ani on Stap is even better! Next on our list is General Skywalker (momentum, when they end their movement) Commander Ahsoka (rolling Cleave) these two can be a good combo too.
Don't forget Foul Moudama (master Lift) and the Icon of Movement Breakers itself: R2-D2, Astromech Droid (Doombot!!!) are we done yet?! Nope!OMG The Republic also has Teleport Swapping with Captain Panaka/Mas Amedda. (teleswapping is what made the Empire so good!) +more minor ways! So yeah the Republics lacking in Charging and doesn't have Levitation, still what other faction has this many movement breaking options for this many different characters? Shooters and Melee Beats alike.
Chargers
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:49:43 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Chargers wrote:
Not able to join us at GameHoleCon for some minis playtime and the first FULL STAT previews for the next v-set?

Then you better listen to our next show ...


Check out Star Wars Miniverse! http://www.swminiverse.com/SW_Miniverse/Welcome.html

Be on the lookout for episode 78, coming soon!



Ding, ding, ding!

For those of you not at GameHoleCon, now's your chance to catch-up on the latest preview goodness. #78 has been released.
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