Agreed!



I'll assure you that the design team is not disregarding the concerns. If you note some of my earlier posts in this thread, I'm one who voiced some of the concerns, and hey, I'm part of the design team! (Although technically I'm not an active designer at the moment, I am project manager for set 4 and I've been working closely with the rest of the design team to work out what set 5 is going to look like)

I really just think that the sentence "People do not like the strength that Bastilla gives to the Old Republic" isn't entirely accurate. SOME people don't like that; some people love it! Personally, even though Bastila is really the #1 piece from the v-sets that I specifically dislike, it's not because I don't like that she made OR strong. I actually love that part of her! So saying that "people" don't like that strength isn't true. Some people don't. As a design team, we can't just listen to some people. We have to listen to all the people.



Bastila will be consider for future designs, yes. So will Master Kavar and Master Thon. So will IG Lancer Droids, Whorm Loathsome, General Rieekan, Emperor Palpatatine on Throne, Thrawn, Ganner Rhysode, etc.

Here's an example: In designing for set 4 (the current set being worked on right now), there was a fringe piece with Double Attack and Furious Assault. So he could stand still and shoot twice or move double speed and shoot everybody once. That's pretty strong, but he was costed appropriate. Then he had to be looked at in specific combos. He was alright with Rieekan, alright with Thrawn, alright with Bastila, but way too good with Whorm Loathsome. Being able to stand still and shoot FOUR times or move and shoot everybody TWICE was just too good. So he had to get changed (off the top of my head, I don't recall how he got changed). That's how the design process works and how it will always work. Whorm Loathsome makes it really hard to make Fringe pieces with Double/Triple Attack, because they benefit greatly from him. Thrawn makes it really hard to make Fringe pieces with Cunning Attack, because they benefit greatly from him. Rieekan makes it really hard to make Fringe pieces that are strong but have no ranged defenses, because he just gives them Evade and makes them powerhouses.

Bastila has no greater or lesser effect on future design than any of those other commanders or high-synergy pieces.



Directly? Probably not. There might be slots filled with pieces that negate Force Abilities or Force Powers in general (like a new Ysalamiri piece), but those certainly aren't aimed specifically at Bastila. Ysalamiri hurts Mace Windu and Lord Vader squads at least as much if not more than Bastila squads.



I don't think anyone expected DotF to be the only V-set. It was something that was considered a possibility, but not really expected (and obviously not desired). I wasn't actually on the design team at the time (just a playtester then), so I didn't see all the behind-the-scenes discussions about it, but she wasn't designed with no V-sets in the future.

Is the "counting discussion" being moved to another thread? It didn't violate the code of conduct, wasn't heated, and served to gauge the pulse of the thread. Additionally, a number of comments not directly tied to the counting discussion were also removed.

For example, the fact that I basically completely agree with Echo24.

after reading most of this( the long posts bore me, and should make their point sooner), I find find the timing of this thread odd.
As soon as it was calculated how long ABM could last in a game I predicted OR would win GenCon.
1 year later, ABM isn't as potent with SSM reinterpreted.GOWK or Zannah should be able to limit Bastila's ABM before they kill her.
In place of errata, we will have more new figures coming to topple Queen Bastila's reign.

that's all I gotta say 'bout that

Excellent post theHutts! That tells you quite a lot right there. One minor correction for the Wisconsin Regional winner. Tim used pawned double Lancer w/o Nute at that one (I recall losing to that squad vividly).

Interestingly the only person I recall running Bastila at that same Regional was Johnnyb (who is a very good player) and he didn't make the final 4.

I could be mistaken but if memory serves all of the Bastila hate didn't really start until after Ian won Gencon with her and that was approx 8 months after she had been out. And while I expect to see her pop up at more Regionals and probably win a higher percentage than in 2011 I seriously doubt it will be a dramatic difference. Heck w/ SSM the way it is now her win percentage could even drop!

She pops up from time to time locally. I went on a kick with her. Another one of our better players has used her a fair amount but she certainly hasn't affected things in a negative way like some suggest. I'm not trying to call any one individual out but it just seems to me no matter what topic you are discussing in this world not everyone will ever agree and there will always be people ready to complain and raise a stink about things.

Kez put things the best with his hilarious post. Seriously people, if she causes issues for your casual play don't use her. And don't worry about trying to convert or convince people that don't like the v-sets. The V-sets have been outstanding even if you don't like certain pieces. Overall they have been a major asset to the future of the game. If other people can't see that and wish things would go back to how things were in the Rebel Storm or Clone Strike days then that person is the one with the issue and they can choose how they want to play. All I know is that the game has continued to get better since I have been playing.

There's no question. And maybe that's why people didn't see a huge issue w/ her until the likes of Jaq Rand came along. I still see it as a positive for the faction though.

I've been thinking: What kind of counter could we see in the future that would dampen Bastilla/Disruptive a bit but not be an outright nullification?

Off the top of my head I thought up:

Rebel Comm Specialist
Faction: Rebel
Cost: 13
HP: 30
Def: 15
Attk: +5
Damage: 10

Abilities:
Advantageous Cover
Comm Relay (Replaces attacks, for the rest of this round or until this character is defeated, Commander Effects within 6 squares are no longer suppressed. Commanders within 6 squares with a Commander effect that has no range instead have a range of 6 squares and cannot be extended. This ability does not affect Commander Effects that change activations.)

Basically the guy can throw up an anti Disruptive/Battle Meditation Bubble, but since it costs an action, you'd have to use up an early activation for it to be effective, and also because of the range reduction on boardwide CEs, you'd have to keep the commanders on the frontlines rather than locked away in a closet.

He probably wouldn't hold up in playtesting, but he's just a rough draft idea.

How did the introduction of Rand to the game make a difference? Just his damage output with her?

I didn't mean to imply just Jaq Rand, he just happens to be the best of all the new shooter options added to the OR (imho anyway). I believe Ian's Gencon squad was all melee but I would expect to see more of a blend with those newer options available. I was primarily commenting on when the furer over Bastila started and wondering out loud if those additions had something to do with some of the negativity and grumbling.

At the WI jason was running her too with mira/boba BH and he made top 4. Matt should of ran here but ran exile because he thought Atris and her didnt stack.

There was a three way tie and I never played jason. Jason played bill and Tim but never played Matt which was the only top 4 other than Tim at the time. I had beat Matt but lost to Tim and Bill. Bill had beat Me but lost to Jason and Tim I believe. SInce I lost to Bill but jason beat bill.

So Jason made it to the top for but lost to Tim in the first round.
Bill got fifth and I got sixth.

It was a big mess and now there are tie breakers for it.
Really Bill,Matt,Jason and I played tier 2 squads not knowing Jake and Tim where coming. Thats what made it fun though.
Bill,Matt and Jason all made top 8 at gencon later in the year with different squads.

So I would not take that regional as a GREAT example for what she can do just a good one.

Everyone knows the rebels got the worst end of the deal when Bastilla hit the table. I don't think that's necessarily bad though. Pre-Bastilla, every rebel squad had General Rieekan and Dodona (People make claims that Bastilla is broken, and use the defense that she nerfed a 14 point piece that can survive a lancer sweep, and provides one of the most powerful CE's, boardwide). What she has done is changed meta. Rebels have to take a seat back for a year of gencon... but with talk of a new spin on the faction, I think it will be refreshing when they come back into competitive play, and aren't just the same handful of commanders in every squad.

The V-sets bring change to a game that has been very static for a very long time. I think this is their strength. It just seems harmful because a change can take multiple sets, and people like what they're familiar with (even if familiarity isn't a good thing, may people cling to it). we're in a transitional phase here for the rebels, but other factions are now shining brighter then ever before. I'm sure as time goes on, certain builds are bound to see the same fate of the Rieekan-Dodona build now, but something better, new, and different is on the way... and for me at least, thats a lot more exciting and fun.