That's great, but that's not my point. Again, you're looking at this from a tournament lense and what I am asking is that you look at this from a casual perspective for a moment, because my whole argument is to make it easier for casuals to enter the scene.

Big +1 there

That is false actually. Swarm squads in WOTC era were I think CIS Lancer/Double Lancer, and Rebel Commandos? I could be wrong. Imps were out act and smash with 1 heavy hitter, and Republic had SkyBuck, which was 3 heroes. And at the end SOLOCHARGE made a splash, which again, is a hero squad that out waits and blasts.

V sets made the lancers a bigger NPE (Poggle the mighty)
Gave Imps double Ysilmari and plethora of options to fill and build


Unpreventable damage, Kyp and Darth Bane (vset ones) off the top of my head offer massive unavoidable damage , Bane I think even has an ability where you can't prevent him from preventing the damage? Where WOTC had 1 piece that cost roughly 70 some odd points that you had to add another 32 point piece, with another 8 point piece just to get his damage up high enough.

And don't even get me on how good swarm squads have been made.... Because I went through the Naboo death shots, The Echani ( which I don't think are as bad of an NPE) and the Godsend Admiral Daala just that I can think of.

Act control like I said has been countered some, but my opinion probably still wins 90% of the time.

CE I understand were already either board wide or 6 squares... a but a simple change of ALL CE NOW ARE WITHIN 6 SQUARES, would be an amazing start IMO.


I don't want to hijack this thread into something its not meant to be. But I'm just pointing out the flaws in the competitive "we are right, you are wrong."

No, what Tim said is correct. WotC gave us most (if not all) of those mechanics. I agree that those are NPE's. I really don't think all of every bodies NPE's can be eliminated.

Perhaps you (or anyone) could put out feelers for a "standard" regional and also see if those attending would be willing to try a "modified" regional as well. The rules might be changed just a little for simplicity.

This might take two days, but could be interesting.

I see what you did there

Every one of those is from the Balance Committee or recent sets. They are the current state of the game.

Problem: attendance, especially for our marquee and competitive events, was down again this year.
Solution: Make the game more accessible to the casual community.

You don't need to be snarky about it. Shmi didn't hijack the thread. No one hijacked the thread. This isn't a GenCon issue, it's a SWM issue.

Congratulations! Positive steps,I'm sure this Aves character is great! How many squads fielded him in regionals/GenCon this year?

And I would hope Panaka of Theed was changed. He was poorly designed from the get go. As well as Poggle.
So those two characters you get nothing more than a pat on the back for coming round and facing those facts. Aves I am interested in if anyone has any games competitively where he was a deciding factor having a great SA and a CE that completely contradict each other. I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR IT!

NPE is a part of the barrier between casual players and tournaments. NPEs, unfortunately, are largely personal. One person's NPE (I hate that overpowered piece!) is another player's favorite squad (finally a playble _____!). Pretty much all of #1 is in that category. #2 is about WotC rulings that prioritize consistency. There are already a lot of exceptions in this game - more exceptions just raises the complexity and makes it a bigger curve for newer players in tournaments. As an example, DARPH_NADER doesn't play SWM anymore... Panaka was his signature squad. A lot of people liked "Fixing" the Naboo squads but we also lost a player (though he may have been out the door anyway due to a move and dedicating time to other games).

NPEs that are more universal than the power level of single piece have been addressed to varying degrees. Primarily, hardly anyone likes NPEs that avoid engagement. There has been lots of Lancer hate to help swarms. Lots of shooter hate to help melee. Lots of things to counter Master Tactician, tempo control, and out-activate and smash. All of these work toward more interaction as well as a lower-activation hero-based meta, which is what the majority of the community has asked for.

Another part of the barrier keeping casual players out of tournaments is the massive number of pieces. If there were only 6 dominant squads like at the end of WotC, the barrier of entry wouldn't be so large... learn those 6 squads and you're set. As is, there are many viable squads. It's hard to win a tournament without being familiar with most of them. But you can compete as long as you have a tier 1 squad. In that regard relatively simple and strong squads allow players to have an easy-to-run squad that can stand up in a tournament. Those squads exist, but there are also many squads a person might like to play at a tournament that just isn't Tier 1 and will lose handily. That will always be the case, no matter what "fixes" are implemented.

TL; DR
* Not everything can be tier 1.
* If more stuff is Tier 1, that's a barrier to new players because they need to know more stuff to win a tournament
* If less stuff is Tier 1, that's a barrier to new players because it's more likely that nothing they like is Tier 1
* If more stuff is Tier 1, it's more likely a new player can find something they like that is Tier 1... still not likely to win a tournament but more likely to win a game

See, the problem is this: The competitive players don't see many things as problems that the casual players see as problems. But if you want to have more players than just those in your little, declining circle of hardcore tournament players you gotta listen to all those "normal" players who see things from a more casual and non-mechanical point.

I mean, this whole discussion often seems to be a circular argument. The casual/non-competitive players point out some issues again and again and the common response is: "But figure X didn't win event Y"/"Figure X wasn't played at all at event Y" That's not the point of it. The problem still exists, even if a little circle of very experienced players did not ecounter it during tournaments.

Here are some of the problems i see with the game at it's current state and i feel like i am not alone with this:

- Fix stupid rulings. This are the first things new players are going to dislike, like attacks with lightsabers not melee, General Skywalker not counting as Anakin, etc. Those kind of things. I know it makes little difference to the gameplay but it just takes away the immersion/fun for many players
- CE's normal range should be 6, only exceptions should be very weak ones (original Jabba for example), double-edged ones or "character X gains ability Y" type of CEs
- No superstealth. Change it to an slightly improved version of stealth (range 3 instead of 6 for example) or just leave it out of the game completely
- No activation control. Messing with the game's basic mechanics is pretty much dumb in any game.
- Change Strafe/Galloping Attack so that you can only move in one straight line while using it. Makes thematic sense and makes it less powerful, you actually have to play now to use it correctly.
- Alter cover rules for huge characters. Huges can't get cover from non-huge characters and low objects, but also ignore difficult terrain, low objects and medium/small sized enemies.
- Change costs of some characters. (Just as an example, WOTC Darth Revan cost 70. From a WOTC-only point of view and exluding the top 100 pieces.)

You know, a part of me wonders why i'm even trying to point this out again and again, knowing that it will probably not be of any interest for the competitive players. I appreciate that you guys listen to the community, but again, try to see it from a casual/new player perspective just for a moment. Then you will see that these points are quite valid and reasons why many players got away from the game. Let's just face it: Why would i start playing this game or even continue to play it when there are such obvious issues with some mechanics/figures when i can just play Imperial Assault for example. Or any other, better designed game if i'm not necessarily into Star Wars. Don't get me wrong, SWM was a great game, but the sets from 2008 onwards did just limit the gameplay to very extreme mechanics and squads, which is why i prefer to stay "in the past" and play with older squads/figures. I still use the strong figures like Elite Rebel Commandos or Mouse Droids but i limit their "abusiveness" through my limited collection. And to be fair, most times i tell my opponent that i am going to use Vader, Imp Commander for example so that he has at least a chance to include grenades, etc. Of course that is casual behaviour. But it wouldn't be necessary it those issues would be fixed.