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Naarkon
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 3:02:30 PM
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I'm loving tenacious. Anything that encourages you to attack rather than wait is good in my book.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 3:07:11 PM
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Naarkon wrote:
I'm loving tenacious. Anything that encourages you to attack rather than wait is good in my book.


ThumbsUp
Lord_Ball
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 3:46:02 PM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:

It seems that there is such concern over cancelled CEs that a FRINGE character has Independent Outfit, just so he can grant it through Camaraderie...


My bad that's a typo. Booster gives Independant Outfit to Mirax. He doesn't have it himself.


Well that makes it a bit better, I know I was told the character with Camaraderie was supposed to have whatever abilities it grants so figured that's what that was. Still feel Camaraderie and Synergy are being overused though.
jen'ari
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 3:50:40 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
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Tenacious is a cool name and ability and fits booster.
I do LOVE the rival for imperial squad.
I think rival for things for some fringe is appropriate and fun.

swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 7:01:57 PM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
Lord_Ball wrote:
donnyrides wrote:
Booster would have been a lot cooler if it had "willing to serve". No hondo, no maz...

For me Booster really highlights a problem among the design trend...

It seems that there is such concern over cancelled CEs that a FRINGE character has Independent Outfit, just so he can grant it through Camaraderie...

Not a big fan of the overuse of Camaraderie and Synergy personally. when it was just used to boost the older useless figures it was fine, but now it seems too much of a go to.


Yes, as Tim stated, that IO bit did not make it into the final version. As RulesGuy, I dislike such technical loopholes, and closed it.

As far as Camaraderie, the running guideline is that the character should have at least ONE of the abilities it hands out. I'd prefer all, but that was already spoiled on the first set I helped QC (v5). It came out in v4.

I agree with you about the overuse of Camaraderie, especially boosting new characters. It's too easy...

I agree less so on Synergy, as I don't have much of a problem with it when it isn't overly broad (*cough* Rapport *cough*). I definitely dislike "reverse" synergy (boosting others) unless it is very narrowly focused.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 7:46:50 PM
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Location: Chicago
I'm still waiting for someone to spot a certain something on Booster
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:33:16 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to spot a certain something on Booster


I chose to let that slide, for the fun factor. Now I'm nervous. OMG
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 9:53:05 PM
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swinefeld wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to spot a certain something on Booster


I chose to let that slide, for the fun factor. Now I'm nervous. OMG


What's to be nervous about? (Glad the fun factor was there to allow the slide)
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 10:33:36 PM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
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TimmerB123 wrote:
What's to be nervous about?


Probably nothing, but I don't like wildcards in poker, or minis. Wink
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, June 7, 2017 11:04:53 PM
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swinefeld wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
What's to be nervous about?


Probably nothing, but I don't like wildcards in poker, or minis. Wink



Honestly normally I don't either (you've seen how I design). But I figured this experiment was worth a try. Unsure
jen'ari
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 2:12:08 AM
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What does changes position mean?

Exactly what all does interdict effect?
Versatility? Palleon?
Lord_Ball
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 2:15:44 AM
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swinefeld wrote:
I agree less so on Synergy, as I don't have much of a problem with it when it isn't overly broad (*cough* Rapport *cough*). I definitely dislike "reverse" synergy (boosting others) unless it is very narrowly focused.


Synergy definitely isn't as bad, since it's just a stat boost, my main issue with it seeing more use is that it feels like it pigeonholes squad building - If you want to use character X better plan on bringing in Y....
Vankovich
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:35:20 AM
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Joined: 2/17/2016
Posts: 43
jen'ari wrote:
Tenacious is a cool name and ability and fits booster.
I do LOVE the rival for imperial squad.
I think rival for things for some fringe is appropriate and fun.



I get the feeling a Tenacious D reference will appear in someones game at some point. LOL
donnyrides
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:15:14 AM
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anybody happen to notice the Death Trooper stats????

as for booster, It looks like Talon squads are safe again
Interdict [Suppresses commander effects and special abilities (both enemy and ally) that replace characters in a squad] - stupid luke in stormy armor can't just show up in your squad anymore. Also puts a cap on to all those V6 vehicles like GG on his bike and Maul, and Durge.

If I just want to be a complainer, I'd ask why it's so important to go soooo broad with this ability? If you wanted to stop Luke from entering your squad, then the ability could have said stops characters from entering another squad. This would have stopped Marn as well. This ability as is puts the smash down on a lot of fun pieces. Just the idea of this being around threatens any "versatility" or "Vehicle" or Admiral Gilad Pellaeon squad to a point to where you would almost be scared to build one because you are probably an auto loss should you run into Booster and you depended on some form of change out ability in your squad building. Exar Kun can still still Force Essence and Transfer Essence since they are force abilities and don't technically say "replace"

I like the point of the ability, but it's too broad of a stroke IMO. Feels like a counter to a counter. I'm not to big of a fan of what I call "Blue Magic" abilities in SWM. I prefer my minis with less control of the other squad and more of good old fashion Me-vs-You!

Love Death Trooper. Hope Krennic has something awesome to add to them. Rapport would be nice to knock down that 28 cost.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:30:17 AM
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donnyrides wrote:
anybody happen to notice the Death Trooper stats????

as for booster, It looks like Talon squads are safe again
Interdict [Suppresses commander effects and special abilities (both enemy and ally) that replace characters in a squad] - stupid luke in stormy armor can't just show up in your squad anymore. Also puts a cap on to all those V6 vehicles like GG on his bike and Maul, and Durge.

If I just want to be a complainer, I'd ask why it's so important to go soooo broad with this ability? If you wanted to stop Luke from entering your squad, then the ability could have said stops characters from entering another squad. This would have stopped Marn as well. This ability as is puts the smash down on a lot of fun pieces. Just the idea of this being around threatens any "versatility" or "Vehicle" or Admiral Gilad Pellaeon squad to a point to where you would almost be scared to build one because you are probably an auto loss should you run into Booster and you depended on some form of change out ability in your squad building. Exar Kun can still still Force Essence and Transfer Essence since they are force abilities and don't technically say "replace"

I like the point of the ability, but it's too broad of a stroke IMO. Feels like a counter to a counter. I'm not to big of a fan of what I call "Blue Magic" abilities in SWM. I prefer my minis with less control of the other squad and more of good old fashion Me-vs-You!

Love Death Trooper. Hope Krennic has something awesome to add to them. Rapport would be nice to knock down that 28 cost.



I like it, the fact that booster exists makes you think twice about using squads that are "versatile". I like the good old days where you took a squad you felt comfortable with and didn't have the ability to change so much. it feels weird when you go to a tournament and someone is essentially playing 3-4 different squads due to versatility, palleon, etc. it takes skill away from the game, and that should be a focus-- bringing skill back into it as much as possible for a dice based game anyways lol.
Naarkon
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:53:27 AM
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Joined: 9/30/2014
Posts: 345
Location: Wisconsin
Ooooooh, I had missed the death trooper. That looks pretty cool. I like the built-in door control that we've been getting.
TimmerB123
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 10:21:22 AM
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
Deaths_Baine wrote:
donnyrides wrote:
anybody happen to notice the Death Trooper stats????

as for booster, It looks like Talon squads are safe again
Interdict [Suppresses commander effects and special abilities (both enemy and ally) that replace characters in a squad] - stupid luke in stormy armor can't just show up in your squad anymore. Also puts a cap on to all those V6 vehicles like GG on his bike and Maul, and Durge.

If I just want to be a complainer, I'd ask why it's so important to go soooo broad with this ability? If you wanted to stop Luke from entering your squad, then the ability could have said stops characters from entering another squad. This would have stopped Marn as well. This ability as is puts the smash down on a lot of fun pieces. Just the idea of this being around threatens any "versatility" or "Vehicle" or Admiral Gilad Pellaeon squad to a point to where you would almost be scared to build one because you are probably an auto loss should you run into Booster and you depended on some form of change out ability in your squad building. Exar Kun can still still Force Essence and Transfer Essence since they are force abilities and don't technically say "replace"

I like the point of the ability, but it's too broad of a stroke IMO. Feels like a counter to a counter. I'm not to big of a fan of what I call "Blue Magic" abilities in SWM. I prefer my minis with less control of the other squad and more of good old fashion Me-vs-You!

Love Death Trooper. Hope Krennic has something awesome to add to them. Rapport would be nice to knock down that 28 cost.



I like it, the fact that booster exists makes you think twice about using squads that are "versatile". I like the good old days where you took a squad you felt comfortable with and didn't have the ability to change so much. it feels weird when you go to a tournament and someone is essentially playing 3-4 different squads due to versatility, palleon, etc. it takes skill away from the game, and that should be a focus-- bringing skill back into it as much as possible for a dice based game anyways lol.


I feel the same way as Deaths Baine here. There has been frequent community complaints about so much squad tailoring, and it is a very powerful competitive option. It slows the game down and most of the pieces that have the ability to do it are already highly competitive.

I went undefeated in Swiss last year using Pellaeon to swap out Potty Palps every single game, allowing another character to start halfway up the board (since palps has emplacement). It was really a quirky loophole and an abusive tactic.

As a player I naturally gravitate towards tactics where I can have as much control of the game as possible. If I like it as a player - it should generally be countered in design. I actively think about if I would be really excited about playing something in competitive games - and if so it's usually a problem. As a designer I legitimately counter myself as a player.

Keep in mind it doesn't take away a character - you just have to stick with what you bring in the first place. So the only thing it really discourages - is what I was doing. Bringing a character you don't have any intention of using, just to get a side benefit in addition to custom squad tailoring.


So - in essence - it's broad on purpose because the problem is broad. The issue was not just TK turning into Luke Stormy (although that was an issue that should have been easily avoided in design of that piece). Pelleaon is an issue. "Vehicle" is an issue. "Versatility" is an issue. They are very powerful abilities that can be abused and slow the game down. They are complained about frequently. It doesn't hurt the original piece in the squad in any way - you just have to stay with that piece.


Regardless - I don't think Booster will be tier 1 - so you won't encounter it much. But I DO hope people find him to be a lot of fun. I can say the play testers all thought he was very fun.
donnyrides
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 12:46:26 PM
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Han in carbonite considered "replaced"?
CorellianComedian
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 1:23:55 PM
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Joined: 8/30/2014
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Stoked to be getting Jace Malcom - his design is awesome! I was expecting he'd be bigger offensively, but he's a solid package for 23 points, and very elegantly designed. Works nicely with the OR Veterans. My only complaint is that his Thermal Imploder can't be used against adjacent enemies... that is specifically what he did in the video, and one of the most notable grenade uses (if not the most notable) in all of Star Wars.
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:02:24 PM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
donnyrides wrote:
Han in carbonite considered "replaced"?


Nope.
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