+1
This was a good thread, and I have to say I'm on the fence. My feet dangling over the Vader Sith Side though . I'd love to see it but there are umpteen valid reasons/opinions why we shouldnt see it and for that I can appreciate why we havnt had 1 before.

Dave, I made two possible assumptive readings of a poll, neither of which was intended to be the "correct" reading. I was showing how easily reading a poll as community desire, either positively or negatively can be problematic. I didn't even get into the issue of poll bias wording, which is also a concern. I'm not sure why you picked out one of my "examples" of misreading and not the other. Actually, I do know why - because I've stated my opinion on this topic, and I must clearly be a person incapable of separating my own desires from that of the greater community - or perhaps you didn't intend to imply that about me :) I'd say fringe Han Solo in DotF pretty well establishes that I'm willing to make minis that I personally would never want to see made.

Let me reiterate without example. The primary problem with using a poll for something like this, is that a poll suggests action to a lot of people, no matter what the real intention is. It suggests that it represents public opinion on a topic. It further in some small ways obligates the designers in one of two ways - to either follow it, or intentionally ignore it. Once a poll is done, there is no getting around, that the designers are doing one of the above choices, and no longer making independent choices based on other factors to most people. The ability to nuance a discussion with details, is almost entirely erased once poll data is available for most people - no matter how good or bad the information really is. It also suggests a privileging of this particular question, over and against other concerns and ideas. No poll, no matter how clearly written, avoids these trappings.

Here's an example. The poll is made much like the ones closed, only representing this one small topic, with yes, no, don't care as the options. Sounds simple enough right? But what information are you really getting from it? Do you know if the people who voted no or yes really do care? Not at all, you might think you do, since they didn't click "don't care" but you only have a completely false view of their answers here. You don't know if they weigh this issue as higher or lower than others at all. People who vote "yes" might be thinking "YES RIGHT NOW, BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE IS EVER MADE!!!" or perhaps, "sure, I guess I'd be ok if the made one some day". Do you know if the people on the "yes" side would be more upset by not having one made, than the people on the "no" side by having one made? Not at all, can't tell the emotions tied up on a topic without posts.

Now, you say it would add to the discussion, I do agree with that. However, there is no getting around that a poll attaches a degree of obligation to a topic, no matter what someone intends. People think it will matter, and they will, after a poll is done, change their expectations on that topic. I don't see the value in creating obligations for the design team, or if you prefer, "expectations". I think the tiny value of doing a poll, not nearly worth the potential setting of expectations worth doing, especially when you add in that I think polls tell you next to nothing about real information anyways. Polls are perhaps the worst judgment of public opinion available, and are near unanimously biased to the point of deceit - even when completely harmless and unintended. So I don't like them, and won't make one in my own threads on topics about V-set ideas. :)

Just as a point, this is a quote from Wookipedia/Wikipedia of Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. Its the next book on my list.
I think it weighs in favour of saying Vader is a Sith or on the road to becoming one, which i know alot of people say...
"Just because he is a sith duznt mean he should be in Sith faction."
Granted, but other Legitimate Sith are so why not he?
Or
"Just because the factions broken duznt mean we should break it some more."
Possibly but just as possibly not, its only conjecture that makes us say the faction is broken. With the inclusion of Sidious and Maul it actually errs on the side that the faction is indeed not broken and very much happy and well because they are in it!
All the books and written material state the characters/minis we've had stated as 'the odd ones out' Lumiya/Caedus/Krayt and the One Sith are very much infact Sith, so they fit. I dont realy see the 'fudge it to fit' of those ones into the faction. They again put more creedence for having characters that are/were function sith aka Sidious, Maul, Tyranus, Ventress(via affintiy with Tyranus because she never completed her training) and finally Vader to be in said faction....but thats a big can'o'worms to open!!

Anyway I got rambling again. Heres the quote...

Luceno devotes much of Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader to the internal conflict that Darth Vader undergoes as he tries to shed his former identity of Anakin Skywalker and relearn to master The Force. Palpatine intends for these early missions that he sends Vader on to be as much about learning what it means to be a Sith as they are about consolidating the rule of the nascent Empire.

Bill , I know what you were trying to say in the part of your post that quoted, I was just trying to point out how it came across. I was not actually accusing you of anything, just saying how it came across. Of cause not everyone will read your post and reach the same conclusion, but some will.

As for what you have put above, Well I was saying that a poll and a thread would have been better than just one thread whether that be a thread like this one or a poll. I do agree that a poll on it's own would not be constructive. I am not 100% sure if I agree with how you view polls though done here or anywhere on SWM sites, but as it is not something I have looked into in any way I can not dismiss it either as anything can be abused. As for whether feedback from a thread like this is 1000x better, well i guess we just see these threads differently, but have no problem if threads like this are better for you.

Again though I was not saying a poll would be better, but just as valid if done correctly and in conjunction with a thread like this. Not instead off, which is how your post reads as a reply to my post. Again probably not what you were saying but that's how it comes across to me. However you know we come from different parts of the world and posts do not translate or really convey what we are saying.

I also think a Q&A thread with the desingers would be good on so many levals.

Ok just as a confirmation Bill are you one of the designers for this next set? If so which designer from last set has been dropped/desided not to continue or are there 4 of you on this set?

I haven't read through the whole thread, but it could be cool to have a Sith character sometime who can bring in unique force users from the other dark side factions (which is mainly going to be Seperatists and Imperials I guess).

"You can't always get what you want, but you get what you need."
Mick Jagger and Keith Richards
My motto for life

Would I like a Sith Vader? Yes please. I wouldnt like a swarm of 'em running about in the sith, but one certainly couldn't hurt.

Eric Frost is Ruhk, fyi

Eric is Ruhk, or the player formerly known as 'Tier 1' before Delilah had his awesome hair cut.