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TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:21:37 PM
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Deathwielded wrote:
saber1 wrote:
Gantoris looks impressive. Which direction does Affinity go?

I believe Exar comes to the New Republic. If not I would be disappointed.Sad


You won't be Sad
Deathwielded
Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 8:36:57 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Deathwielded wrote:

Flax Shield (Whenever this character takes damage it reduces the damage by 10 with a save of 6. Attacks from adjacent enemies ignore this ability)


Actually it's FLAK Shield.

But a protective barrier of grain would be pretty sweet.


LOL!Laugh I figured I heard that wrong! It's kinda grainy and difficult to hear, but I got pretty much everything else right. I coulda swore they said Flax Shield, they said it like 3 times.Tongue
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:36:40 PM
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He said grainy. Heh.
CerousMutor
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:06:10 AM
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saber1 wrote:
Gantoris looks impressive. Which direction does Affinity go?


+1

nice character choice
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 6:56:07 AM
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Deathwielded wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Deathwielded wrote:

Flax Shield (Whenever this character takes damage it reduces the damage by 10 with a save of 6. Attacks from adjacent enemies ignore this ability)


Actually it's FLAK Shield.

But a protective barrier of grain would be pretty sweet.


LOL!Laugh I figured I heard that wrong! It's kinda grainy and difficult to hear, but I got pretty much everything else right. I coulda swore they said Flax Shield, they said it like 3 times.Tongue




Speaking of this ability - since it is new to the game, I'd love to hear what everyone thinks of it.
Deathwielded
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:07:01 AM
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I like Flak Shield, it's a solid defense against ranged shooters though I'm not sure why it doesn't work against adjacent enemies? (maybe too early in the morning for me)
the Guard Clone himself will be an awesome addition, with Sonic Stunner on a lower costing piece I would use it more often. Plus if I have more than one I can use the others Opportunist to mop up the characters I activated.
Not to mention his almost unheard of defense! (for a Clone trooper) BTW thanks for the cools Picture!

As for Gantoris not a character I thought we would see getting a custom, but man is he gonna be awesome!
Bringing Exar, Dark Force Spirit into the New Republic sounds Awesome! Haunt Gantoris himself and he gets 20 Def, +13 attack with Renewal for Force Bubble and Sith Rage to increase his already impressive 30 damage. Give him GMA either from Luke GH or the Black sun Vigos (that route insuring Evade also) and he can be quite deadly with Melee Reach 2. Rival against Corran Horn makes sense, plus insures Corran doesn't get boosted by Exar. Honestly I think you could lower Gantoris' cost alittle, but no more then 7-5 points. Any ways he will be an awesome character plus I have yet to explore all the interaction Exar will bring to the New Republic (they definitely could use a damage boost IMO)
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:44:27 AM
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Deathwielded wrote:
I like Flak Shield, it's a solid defense against ranged shooters though I'm not sure why it doesn't work against adjacent enemies? (maybe too early in the morning for me)


In a way it's a game mechanic to encourage engagement. Any adjacent attack ignores the ability, so anyone can just run up to them and smack them. Or take a lot more effort and power to shoot them at range or use an SA or FP to do the work.

It encourages engagement on both ends too. So often in the game now, if you expose someone, they die. Period. This ability encourages the player playing Republic (in this instance of the ability) to step out and take a shot, get into the action. And it also encourages the opponent to advance so they can base the enemies with this ability to negate it.

IMO there are too many 50/50 "all or nothing" saves in the game. Complete avoidance of damage or taking it all (evade, parry, LS defense, etc, etc, etc). This is an ability where you have a good chance (75%) of reducing damage on anything OTHER THAN an adjacent attack. But only reducing it, not avoiding it completely (unless of course it's only 10 damage). So even a twin 30 dam hitter probably won't kill this character from range. It harkens back to the days (first few sets) of the game when it was more about attrition. Slowly adding up damage on the opponents big nasty. Throwing everything you have at them for several rounds to take them down. Obviously these guys aren't "big nasties" by themselves, but with the damage ceiling having gone much further up than way back then (much of it done by later WotC sets), we wanted to introduce more abilities like this that aren't "all or none" saves. They can be negated, and not simply by what weapon you hold (melee or non-melee), and even if you don't negate it - you can still cause damage. And the method of negation is old fashioned, in your face engagement - something we want to encourage. Attacks are still the staple of this game, and should remain to be. ThumbsUp
Deathwielded
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:06:22 AM
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I agree, I also wasn't a big fan of so many 50/50 rolls so I like the New SA and hope we get to see some more like it.
markedman247
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:16:25 AM
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Borrowing a mechanic from Dune, I see? :)
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:47:40 AM
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No. There is a Dune game? I am completely unaware of it.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:03:10 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
In a way it's a game mechanic to encourage engagement. Any adjacent attack ignores the ability, so anyone can just run up to them and smack them. Or take a lot more effort and power to shoot them at range or use an SA or FP to do the work.

It encourages engagement on both ends too. So often in the game now, if you expose someone, they die. Period. This ability encourages the player playing Republic (in this instance of the ability) to step out and take a shot, get into the action. And it also encourages the opponent to advance so they can base the enemies with this ability to negate it.

IMO there are too many 50/50 "all or nothing" saves in the game. Complete avoidance of damage or taking it all (evade, parry, LS defense, etc, etc, etc). This is an ability where you have a good chance (75%) of reducing damage on anything OTHER THAN an adjacent attack. But only reducing it, not avoiding it completely (unless of course it's only 10 damage). So even a twin 30 dam hitter probably won't kill this character from range. It harkens back to the days (first few sets) of the game when it was more about attrition. Slowly adding up damage on the opponents big nasty. Throwing everything you have at them for several rounds to take them down. Obviously these guys aren't "big nasties" by themselves, but with the damage ceiling having gone much further up than way back then (much of it done by later WotC sets), we wanted to introduce more abilities like this that aren't "all or none" saves. They can be negated, and not simply by what weapon you hold (melee or non-melee), and even if you don't negate it - you can still cause damage. And the method of negation is old fashioned, in your face engagement - something we want to encourage. Attacks are still the staple of this game, and should remain to be. ThumbsUp


This discussion reminds me of one of the recommendations I posted in the requests thread. An ability that guarantees a character can't be killed in a single activation:

Close Call : If this character begins a turn with more than 10 hit points and would be defeated, it instead remains in play with 10 hit points and cannot be damaged for the rest of the turn.

(Might need to also stipulate that the character cannot have damage removed.)
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:54:21 PM
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Then how would that character ever die?
AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 2:56:21 PM
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It just takes an extra turn. If it has 10 HP it can die. There probably would need to be an extra line that states any attack that would reduce it to less than 0 HP you get 10 HP etc etc. It is like a stronger, saveless Avoid Defeat.
markedman247
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:11:00 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
No. There is a Dune game? I am completely unaware of it.


No, but the concept of a shield being useful at range but useless in melee always struck me as from the movie, "Dune." Not as "full bodied" but it was something that always struck out about this ability and it's similarity in mechanic.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:39:37 PM
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Yes, there is a Dune boardgame. Quite popular, especially given how old it is.

I don't know if there's anything in the game related to a Flax Shield though. It's kind of a desert, I think. So hard to grow grain.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:48:04 PM
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Re: Close Call special ability

AndyHatton wrote:
It just takes an extra turn. If it has 10 HP it can die. There probably would need to be an extra line that states any attack that would reduce it to less than 0 HP you get 10 HP etc etc. It is like a stronger, saveless Avoid Defeat.


Yes, exactly. I thought the wording I gave covered gaining the 10 HP, but maybe not. My concern was that if he can be healed, it would be too difficult to kill him, so perhaps add text that says "damage cannot be removed from this character."

I would envision Close Call on a 7-13 cost piece. It seems that cost range is usually not worth taking in a squad because those pieces often die in one turn just like the 3-pt activation pieces. You lose an activation for no more staying power, and they aren't typically strong enough to be good attackers either. (Talking about attackers here - there are numerous tech pieces in that cost range well worth their points.) If you could guarantee two turns before being killed, though, that would make them a lot more viable. They could still be killed by an opponent in one phase, but it would take both of the opponent's activations to do it. Something like that might compete with a Klatooinian Assassin for a spot in a squad. (That seems to me to be the go-to piece in that point range.)
EmporerDragon
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:56:39 PM
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Close Call just doesn't sound right for an ability like that. I'd say Tenacity would be a better fit.
AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:01:11 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Yes, there is a Dune boardgame. Quite popular, especially given how old it is.

I don't know if there's anything in the game related to a Flax Shield though. It's kind of a desert, I think. So hard to grow grain.


It was rereleased as R.E.X. set in Fantasy Flight's Twilight Imperium universe...maybe there is grain there! On some planet...
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:51:07 AM
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The Dune board game is awesome! Everyone should play it.

Also, I do particularly like that Close Call ability, and also think you have a very good concept of how it should be used. It would need to be applied carefully to ~10 point backup attackers, and we would need to be sure that those characters don't get boosted too much, because there are some characters in that point range whose only disadvantage is that they are prone to getting killed in a single turn. But I love tertiary attackers and pieces like Jagged Fel; a solid attack value and fairly survivable, but only does 10 damage and you can't really make him scary. Take away his CE, give him 20 or 30 HP instead of 60, drop his cost to 8-9 (since his CE really is the majority of his cost), and give him Close Call, and I would play that piece a lot. An excellent blocker, and even a bit of a strafe counter because he can take up a landing area and can't be removed in a single strafe through.

I also think "Tenacity" is a better name for it as well.
Mando
Posted: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:17:36 PM
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I really like the idea of Close Call (or Tenacity as some have said it should be named). It is a great counter to the dreaded 2pt poggle bombs and also Klat Assasins. I think it is a really clever idea and I hope a fringe piece gets this SA so that every faction can have this counter available to them.
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