This matchup proves very clearly that Daala smashes rock squad to bits. No doubt. This was not a good test for the Zygerrian - he wasn't very necessary to beat this squad.

But most juiced up trooper squads beat rock squads.

This matchup was all melee. It had no choice but to walk into the meat grinder. That many shots will eventually get through.

In a balanced meta - there's always something that has the advantage over any squad to keep any one thing from being too dominant.

The issue with Zygerrians are that they allow the INSANE deep strike that allows them to beat squads that would typically keep trooper squads in check - gallop, strafe, Unleash the Force, momaw, Kaan, etc. They can move so far as to have greater range than any of these. All you have to do is lock (or block) your squad in the back untill the end of the round then deep strike the key pieces (as Bronson demonstrated).

You can get power through the roof with or without the Zygerrian, and that will beat rocks squads either way. But without the Zygerrian, mass killers come in and wipe the troopers out, because they can once again move further. Then Rock squads make their way back into the meta because they handle the mass killers better. We're back to having variety in the meta.


I still think the Zygerrian is the bigger issue. It is what makes the Daala squads from one sided rock squad killers with a giant achilles heel - into a meta warping dominance that can handle any squad out there. Even the so called counters.

9x Gungan Artillerists, Boss Nass, Amidala (for mobile), R2 Astro, Tarpals, Momaw, Panaka, R7, Rodian Brute and 2 Ugnaughts. Maybe have a chance with double warthroat on a tow and swap.

Also, the suggestions are great. However, who is actually in charge and decides which if any are implemented? Needs to be a panel and not a single individual I think.

I realize I am too old for this game. My first instinct is "if 20+ activations are causing this much damage with these new pieces, then institute a cap on squad size."

30 activations? Might as well start playing Warhammer. :-/

LOL! I love it. And actually I've always enjoyed most the formats with a capped squad size. However, that's a matter of personal preference, which is not good enough reason to make that change.

It's not so much the activation count that's the problem...it's that more than half of those activations can move really far and pour out a disproportionate amount of damage.

AS Scott said, it is pretty much him and Brad who would actually implement any such change. Many of us are having discussions here, on facebook, in chat, etc, and I'm sure in the next while (hopefully before regionals) we will have some substantial tourney results (frostycon and hamilcon) and even more play reports/results so that Brad/Scott can make a fully informed decision. And I am sure they will consider all input given and that whatever the solution is will make some people happy and some people unhappy as everyone has their ideas. I have every confidence that Brad/Scott will do what is best for the game.

While you are right that it's not a true test, it does have some merit in that, not everyone will field the perfect Daala counter if they are thinking of something else. Sure, this was a specific test, but it's worth thinking that a squad would be less-anti-Daala in order to potentially deal with other squad types. Some merit.

I'm also wondering about Yobuck in that what if the Daala player simply split his squad enough so that Yobuck can't reach them all. They've got so much range, they could get anywhere. In my last game against Daman, on Rhen Var, he had half his squad one way, half the other. Yeah, I get swap and protecting R2. Just thinking out loud. (Also, I've never actually run Yobuck!)

Maps will always play a big role. But if all you need is a locked room, it's pretty easy to find maps that foot that bill. Blocking Yodabuck is the way that might work for a round or 2. If you can use a map with a locked door AND a block, then all you need it to block him for 1 round, then go kill R2, then you can lock/unlock and kill at will at the end of the round.

I think Yobuck can beat Daala certainly, but I also believe that it's going to depend on map, and placement. I don't think it's a sure victory for Yobuck, just based solely on how much ground the Imps can cover and still strike.

The squad I ran at GenCon (NPE Extreme) in my estimation would lose to a well played Daala/zygerrian squad if it has ozzel. This is due to the ZYGERRIAN SLAVER more than Daala.

Without the Zygerrian I think it becomes 60/40 for the lancer.

It is an issue when a "counter-squad" loses most if the time to something.

I've heard that Dr Daman and Sharron (who was playing the NR squad, and who is NZ's most experienced Solo Charge player, winning a major with something similar back in 2011) have run the Solo Charge/Daala matchup a few times, and have been finding that Daala wins it fairly comfortably and reliably.

For those of us not going to the big tournaments next weekend, but who want to contribute, what sort of tests should we be running? Just any decent squad? Builds we think have a chance at Daala? Or specific hate squads? I've heard Corran Horn suggested, so might give that a go.