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jen'ari wrote:Just to make this easier.
Baze twin attacked a trooper. literally two shots one right after the other.
So he clearly has the the ability to twin attack (not that he should, but that single shot blaster is inaccurate and this is not subjective)
Baze did not RUN 60 feet shooting everyone he sees.
#1 he did not run, he walked slowly
#2 he shot people at the beginning, the middle, and the end of his movement.
#3 he got shot at the whole time, other people where "activating" one of them even tried to throw a grenade.
#4 people showed up (moved toward him) that where not in line of sight that he than had a chance to shoot that he would not have had a chance to target.
So we know that since no one can activate during a furious assault that it was not a furious assault.
It was actually two or three separate turns.
Shmi15 please stop trying to argue Star Wars To do this maybe he should have evade (or a better evade) OR evade with a bonus to save throws? (maybe +6, so it becomes a 25 % chance to damage from range?) while having say, double attack and twin, or just double attack with greater mobile. This would kinda simulate what we see in the movie? 
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shmi15 wrote:
So let by gones be by gones, reveal that last blasteded ability so we can all be happy!
Lord knows some will never be happy. Regardless . . .
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shmi15 wrote: Cheers! But to be fair, I did say those things were bad? I just justified them with SWM functionality. Except twin attack, which I will agree with you on he did in fact do it in the movie. But I will stay with the idea of function over flavor. It fits both ways. He obviously doesn't twin everyone. So not every Baze should have it? I forgot the other things you said. But I love the effort! I'm curious tho... Since flavor means everything to you... What kind of squads do you run? Hopefully you never run a Mouse Droid... Because thats ridiculously bad flavor.... Surely you never run Mas Amedda, who booms all CE because he spoke in the Senate really loud? Have you ever actually seen an Ugnaught blow open a door? And Lobot, don't get me started... He can bring in Bobba Fett with reserves! Or some musicians from a Cantina! How stupid is that?! And since when did Imperial Knights become more evasive than any other Jedi! Surely you don't play any Imperial Knight Squads!? First Off I play legends when I play for fun. I play legends because of flavor. We do not have Booming Voice, I do not need ovverride in Legends. Imperial Knights are a lot different, here are some examples. http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/25165/emperor-roan-felhttp://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/25121/ganner-krieg--imperial-knighthttp://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/25118/azlyn-raeI tried to join a regional vassal tournie and my army used mechanics. I used the mechanics to try and do what I want to do. have two sith rampaging people as fast as I can get them adjacent to people. after I got my people where they needed to be I would place San Hill on Gambit. but the point of the squad is to get melee going fast and get my favorite character Sids going ham. http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/174854/infiltrate-on-a-swoop-bikeEDIT** to answer the question I love to run squads that do not need mouse droids or door control (door shatter is my favorite) and I love squads that have one shooter and the rest melee. I love games where there is action. I like to get in there and start swinging, which is why I like current Sith in the game quite a bit shmi15 wrote: So not every Baze should have it? In my particular case I do not think he SHOULD have it.. I think he COULD have it. My beef is that he CAN'T have it, because of Single Shot Blaster, and my other beef is that if it is not desired from a functional stand point than they need to find a different way other than to ruin flavor with the SSB. (by giving him base 20, i think is the easiest)
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Lord knows some will never be happy.
I would be happy if you backed your claims. I will quote you "I truly think Baze is flavorful and a good representation of the character from the film. I DISAGREE that the flavor isn't accurate."
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My 2 cents, FWIW:
I initially didn't care for the 10 base damage and lack of Twin. However, when taken as a complete piece (we have seen the complete stats, right?) he seems to represent much of what is seen of Baze on the big screen. His damage is 20 with Chirrut (encourages pairing to represent their friendship and fighting cohesion as well as his actual "protecting" of Chirrut in Jedha City). Force Attuned Armor provides the robustness he shows during his final moments. Furious Assault shows his advance also in those final moments and prior he was running in several scenes during the Scarif battle. As he seemed to be keeping up with others decently despite equipment and age it seems reasonable to let him scoot n shoot with Furious. At least he can't gain and use Greater Mobile Attack with Furious Assault.
There have been other pieces I've found wanting in flavor/accuracy/potency but Baze looks pretty good to me. This is especially true given his cost. Perhaps we will see a beefier version some day. Heck, I'd raise my hand to vote for an EPIC Baze. That said, In a strategy game, compromises between flavor and accuracy must often be made to strike a balance. Additionally, where humans are involved differences of view/tastes/etc will arise. At least the passion here indicates y'all still dig this game.
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Agreed let it go and just hope for another design in the future, maybe a Baze Malbus, Hero of Scarif, or Guardian of the Whills
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How are you allowed to do this?! How are you allowed to hold the SWM community to ransom with your thick, constant, divisive comments, over and over again? I walked away from this game for six months because of you. Because the same tutaenui. Why are you here? What are you trying to do? You must know what you are doing - you can't be that blind to it! You must be trying to tear this all apart. Why else are you here? You even have your own version of the game where you are in charge. Why don't you keep doing that? Why are you saying the same tutae again, escalating it each time so that it turns into chaos? You must be doing it on purpose! Six months and so much passion for this great game - lost because of you! Stop it! Go. Away. I cannot believe you are allowed to persist with your divisions! I have had to start saying to any new players I teach, "use Bloomilk, but don't go on the forums". Ugggghh! Stop it! Go away!
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jen'ari wrote:Baze did not RUN 60 feet shooting everyone he sees. Are you suggesting that he did not have the ability to run 60 feet shooting everyone? Just because he didn't run 60 feet by no means suggests he couldn't now does it? Furious Assault requires movement - that means 1 space, but up to 12... walking slowly is movement... jen'ari wrote:#1 he did not run, he walked slowly
#2 he shot people at the beginning, the middle, and the end of his movement.
#3 he got shot at the whole time, other people where "activating" one of them even tried to throw a grenade.
#4 people showed up (moved toward him) that where not in line of sight that he than had a chance to shoot that he would not have had a chance to target.
So we know that since no one can activate during a furious assault that it was not a furious assault.
#3 and 4 are absurd simply due to the nature of a board game - people get turns they perform their actions on their turn. Turn 1 - enemy throws grenade (Baze makes his save), turn 2 Another walks closes in and shoots. New player Baze's Turn - Activate furious assault move 4 (yes only 4) spaces to get in the optimal position (which would translate to simulating the others walking into range) and attacks. That pretty much describes the scene to me...
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kezzamachineII wrote:How are you allowed to do this?! How are you allowed to hold the SWM community to ransom with your thick, constant, divisive comments, over and over again? I walked away from this game for six months because of you. Because the same tutaenui. Why are you here? What are you trying to do? You must know what you are doing - you can't be that blind to it! You must be trying to tear this all apart. Why else are you here? You even have your own version of the game where you are in charge. Why don't you keep doing that? Why are you saying the same tutae again, escalating it each time so that it turns into chaos? You must be doing it on purpose! Six months and so much passion for this great game - lost because of you! Stop it! Go. Away. I cannot believe you are allowed to persist with your divisions! I have had to start saying to any new players I teach, "use Bloomilk, but don't go on the forums". Ugggghh! Stop it! Go away! I am going to assume this is directed to me. You know I have said this many times before. If people would just accept it.. it does not make sense for this character to have this ability then it would be fine, but people like to lie or they like to not care. I care. That is why I had to make a whole different version of the game. Which I love, but sadly, the most fun that can be had playing this game is meeting people, and playing different people. We had a tn regional where the Atlanta crew came up to play, it was a blast and I learned the at of squad making. But.. playing the game itself was not fun anymore. I am sorry, but I am adding for the same things over and over again. Flavor for my peeves and a power scaling of sorts. The most powerful people in the movies/shows/comics should be the most powerful in the game. I want pieces to lok and play and feel like the people they represent. Everytime I point out that something is not Flavorful I do so to try to teach people how to make a Flavorful piece. But everyone wants to fight me on everything I say. It just so happens that I know what I am taking about and eventually people always realize that ya, he is right, that doesn't make sense. game) But... No one seems to care. If you want me to stop than start telling people to be more careful when designing pieces. Stop making Uber power pieces (I feel they have done that for the most part) And stop designing pieces that do not look or feel or play like the people they represent. And by the way kezza because of people like me you are enjoying a fun game right now, the most balanced it has been, no crazy swarms and out activate and self destruct bobs, etc etc I am asking people to back their claims. When they do not do that they are not responsible, when they are not held to a standard we get some really bad designs.. like from the past. I just think that if a person claims something (that has a lot to do with the game) and is in charge of a few things, they ought to have a reason and they ought to have evidence. I am not a bad guy
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I'm still lost in all this I think. So regardless if a piece if flavorful.. You still use them correct? The squad you gave me to look at with the Maul on Speeder... What flavor is in that piece? What did he actually do on the Speeder? Didn't he just run up to Qui-Gon and jump off? Why are you using that piece at all if it doesn't represent him better? Or Better yet! Darth Sidious, Supreme Chancellor! The name alone is moronic! He was never openly Supreme Chancellor when he was with the Seps. He was just Lord Sidious. How in the world can you make a squad that uses a name that doesn't represent the character better? Its egregious!Quadruple and Ambush!? Show me a scene where a Seps Palps fought! Please! To the best of my knowledge he doesn't until Episode 3, when he is about to taken by the Jedi Council... Wait a minute... WHy does he have Ambush also!! He didn't ambush them in that scene. You should never run that piece either. Its not flavorful! The squad has Lobot.... But... Lobot has an ability that isn't representing of him at all! Reserves!? He called in some Cloud Pilots/Troopers. Why in the world would you use that piece in a squad! It has NO FLAVOR! And whats this... A mouse droid in your squad? Seven Hells... How could you possibly use a mouse droid when the flavor for it is just not there. Relay Orders? Ugh. I'm just baffled that you, could find it in yourself to use THIS piece!? Wait a minute... Your using a Muun Tactics Broker? When have you ever seen a Muun sacrifice an ally in battle? IS that piece more flavorful for you? Lets see... Your very next squad. Sith Immortality.... Wait a minute... Darth Caedus?! Allow me. Force Ascetic? Do you believe he is in capable of "spending a FP" to move faster? Or.... Wait for it... Was it a FUNCTIONAL ability for this character in this faction. Hmmm.. Who knows. I bet you do. Aiing Ti... Did he eevr actually fight someone when he flow walked? Because if not, then this ability needs to be abolished. It just doesn't make sense for him to be able to do it in a game, if he never did in the books. Darth Sion, your next character in a squad you made.... Do any of his abilities represent him at all? Why are you using him? Zannah, Come on... Lightsaber Combat Expert. In what chapter did she make someone hit themselves with their own lightsaber? THATS RIDICULOUS! How could you use her when that ability is on her! Wait a Minute... Vergere... in a Sith squad.... How on Earth. Why would you even want to run her in a Sith squad! and whats this ability she has? Coral Implants? You mean to tell me she can give VC6 to ANYONE! Thats absurd! Where is the flavor in that? I'm just lost. Because. You claim to love flavor over function.. Yet... Your squads are not flavorful, but have multiple functions... Baze would actually be an improvement from a Flavor standpoint... Because you are FORCED to use Rogue one characters to make him better... Hmm... And I feel like we have made points for the abilities to be on him... The same way you have made yours about them not being on them. The idea of making EVERY version of EVERY character identical is absurd. Some versions should be more flavorful, some should be more functional. If you don't like the functional, just make a flavorful squad... Wait... You don't though... So I am lost. This is just about this one particular person and his one particular version that you don't agree with? I think we can all live with that. Just don't use him :) and be angry when someone else does, and all they do is Furious Assault with Baze, while being Grappling Hooked by Luke Skywalker! Wait a minute... How can Luke do that!!!! I'm outraged! 
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shmi15 wrote:I'm still lost in all this I think. So regardless if a piece if flavorful.. You still use them correct? The squad you gave me to look at with the Maul on Speeder... What flavor is in that piece? What did he actually do on the Speeder? Didn't he just run up to Qui-Gon and jump off? Why are you using that piece at all if it doesn't represent him better? Or Better yet! Darth Sidious, Supreme Chancellor! The name alone is moronic! He was never openly Supreme Chancellor when he was with the Seps. He was just Lord Sidious. How in the world can you make a squad that uses a name that doesn't represent the character better? Its egregious!Quadruple and Ambush!? Show me a scene where a Seps Palps fought! Please! To the best of my knowledge he doesn't until Episode 3, when he is about to taken by the Jedi Council... Wait a minute... WHy does he have Ambush also!! He didn't ambush them in that scene. You should never run that piece either. Its not flavorful! The squad has Lobot.... But... Lobot has an ability that isn't representing of him at all! Reserves!? He called in some Cloud Pilots/Troopers. Why in the world would you use that piece in a squad! It has NO FLAVOR! And whats this... A mouse droid in your squad? Seven Hells... How could you possibly use a mouse droid when the flavor for it is just not there. Relay Orders? Ugh. I'm just baffled that you, could find it in yourself to use THIS piece!? Wait a minute... Your using a Muun Tactics Broker? When have you ever seen a Muun sacrifice an ally in battle? IS that piece more flavorful for you? Lets see... Your very next squad. Sith Immortality.... Wait a minute... Darth Caedus?! Allow me. Force Ascetic? Do you believe he is in capable of "spending a FP" to move faster? Or.... Wait for it... Was it a FUNCTIONAL ability for this character in this faction. Hmmm.. Who knows. I bet you do. Aiing Ti... Did he eevr actually fight someone when he flow walked? Because if not, then this ability needs to be abolished. It just doesn't make sense for him to be able to do it in a game, if he never did in the books. Darth Sion, your next character in a squad you made.... Do any of his abilities represent him at all? Why are you using him? Zannah, Come on... Lightsaber Combat Expert. In what chapter did she make someone hit themselves with their own lightsaber? THATS RIDICULOUS! How could you use her when that ability is on her! Wait a Minute... Vergere... in a Sith squad.... How on Earth. Why would you even want to run her in a Sith squad! and whats this ability she has? Coral Implants? You mean to tell me she can give VC6 to ANYONE! Thats absurd! Where is the flavor in that? I'm just lost. Because. You claim to love flavor over function.. Yet... Your squads are not flavorful, but have multiple functions... Baze would actually be an improvement from a Flavor standpoint... Because you are FORCED to use Rogue one characters to make him better... Hmm... And I feel like we have made points for the abilities to be on him... The same way you have made yours about them not being on them. The idea of making EVERY version of EVERY character identical is absurd. Some versions should be more flavorful, some should be more functional. If you don't like the functional, just make a flavorful squad... Wait... You don't though... So I am lost. This is just about this one particular person and his one particular version that you don't agree with? I think we can all live with that. Just don't use him :) and be angry when someone else does, and all they do is Furious Assault with Baze, while being Grappling Hooked by Luke Skywalker! Wait a minute... How can Luke do that!!!! I'm outraged! luke actually did use grappling hook 
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Deaths_Baine wrote:shmi15 wrote:I'm still lost in all this I think. So regardless if a piece if flavorful.. You still use them correct? The squad you gave me to look at with the Maul on Speeder... What flavor is in that piece? What did he actually do on the Speeder? Didn't he just run up to Qui-Gon and jump off? Why are you using that piece at all if it doesn't represent him better? Or Better yet! Darth Sidious, Supreme Chancellor! The name alone is moronic! He was never openly Supreme Chancellor when he was with the Seps. He was just Lord Sidious. How in the world can you make a squad that uses a name that doesn't represent the character better? Its egregious!Quadruple and Ambush!? Show me a scene where a Seps Palps fought! Please! To the best of my knowledge he doesn't until Episode 3, when he is about to taken by the Jedi Council... Wait a minute... WHy does he have Ambush also!! He didn't ambush them in that scene. You should never run that piece either. Its not flavorful! The squad has Lobot.... But... Lobot has an ability that isn't representing of him at all! Reserves!? He called in some Cloud Pilots/Troopers. Why in the world would you use that piece in a squad! It has NO FLAVOR! And whats this... A mouse droid in your squad? Seven Hells... How could you possibly use a mouse droid when the flavor for it is just not there. Relay Orders? Ugh. I'm just baffled that you, could find it in yourself to use THIS piece!? Wait a minute... Your using a Muun Tactics Broker? When have you ever seen a Muun sacrifice an ally in battle? IS that piece more flavorful for you? Lets see... Your very next squad. Sith Immortality.... Wait a minute... Darth Caedus?! Allow me. Force Ascetic? Do you believe he is in capable of "spending a FP" to move faster? Or.... Wait for it... Was it a FUNCTIONAL ability for this character in this faction. Hmmm.. Who knows. I bet you do. Aiing Ti... Did he eevr actually fight someone when he flow walked? Because if not, then this ability needs to be abolished. It just doesn't make sense for him to be able to do it in a game, if he never did in the books. Darth Sion, your next character in a squad you made.... Do any of his abilities represent him at all? Why are you using him? Zannah, Come on... Lightsaber Combat Expert. In what chapter did she make someone hit themselves with their own lightsaber? THATS RIDICULOUS! How could you use her when that ability is on her! Wait a Minute... Vergere... in a Sith squad.... How on Earth. Why would you even want to run her in a Sith squad! and whats this ability she has? Coral Implants? You mean to tell me she can give VC6 to ANYONE! Thats absurd! Where is the flavor in that? I'm just lost. Because. You claim to love flavor over function.. Yet... Your squads are not flavorful, but have multiple functions... Baze would actually be an improvement from a Flavor standpoint... Because you are FORCED to use Rogue one characters to make him better... Hmm... And I feel like we have made points for the abilities to be on him... The same way you have made yours about them not being on them. The idea of making EVERY version of EVERY character identical is absurd. Some versions should be more flavorful, some should be more functional. If you don't like the functional, just make a flavorful squad... Wait... You don't though... So I am lost. This is just about this one particular person and his one particular version that you don't agree with? I think we can all live with that. Just don't use him :) and be angry when someone else does, and all they do is Furious Assault with Baze, while being Grappling Hooked by Luke Skywalker! Wait a minute... How can Luke do that!!!! I'm outraged! luke actually did use grappling hook This is why I hate you  
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This is gross. These guys are just trying to argue for some changes to a piece and they are being dismissed and belittled. Nothing is being held hostage. An attempt is being made to persuade with reasoned arguments to incite change. Maybe the chance for making a change is gone. Seems like this design is already final. The argument should probably be about getting involved in play-testing and designing (if the latter is open to anyone)
The criticisms then became person and ugly because they were lashing out.
I'm looking forward to GenCon, because the tone of these discussions is lost on the internet, and I want to see how you all interact in person. I trust that things are more civil and enjoyable
EDIT: Thanks Donnie. I truly mean when I say the tone is lost, and trust that most* of you are civil/having fun.
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Gizmotronx wrote:This is gross. These guys are just trying to argue for some changes to a piece and they are being dismissed and belittled. Nothing is being held hostage. An attempt is being made to persuade with reasoned arguments to incite change. Maybe the chance for making a change is gone. Seems like this design is already final. The argument should probably be about getting involved in play-testing and designing (if the latter is open to anyone)
The criticisms then became person and ugly because they were lashing out.
I'm looking forward to GenCon, because the tone of these discussions is lost on the internet, and I want to see how you all interact in person. I trust that things are more civil and enjoyable
It's all good man. I have actually had a lot of these people stay at my house and we had a great time. Tim b actually brought me some bread that I still think about from time to time cause it was amazing. And shmi is my family lol. So hes allowed to say whatever he wants lol
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"Baze would actually be an improvement from a Flavor standpoint... Because you are FORCED to use Rogue one characters to make him better... Hmm..."
^^ This point here kind of throws me... Baze couldn't care less if he was part of "Rogue One" all he cared about was Imwe. which is why in my CCC version of him, I didn't give him "Rogue One". Just because they were in a movie together doesn't make them chums. To me, it's like giving any beardless Obi-one and Gui-Gon and Jar Jar an ability (Phantom Menace) and force you to use them together to make them great.
From the movie, which "Rogue One" character made Baze better other than Imwe??
I love subfactions, but if I had to pick, on this one, I'd rather it not exist.
Recent subfactions
Ghost Crew - makes sense, they are together for most of the cartoon series
Resistance - This is what the NR called themselves and it marks an era in time which I think is a really good way to lump pieces together in the first place
First Order - Same as resistance
Rogue One - people together in a space ship and in a movie together. Not really enough to go on to cause a real connection or synergy other than the little mini connections such as Jyn and Cassian or Imwe and Baze or Cassian and K-2SO but K-2 and Baze have very little to do with each other.
Imps from movie "Rogue One" Have no possible subfaction since they are straight up Imperials.
Just throwing this out there as an OPINION. It can be thought of in many other ways and I'm cool with that.
EDIT: X:22 PM - There have been about 8 people watching this thread. 30 minutes have gone since I posted my post seen above with no comments, and that's fine. BUT had I posted direct shade about somebody there would be reactions. So this tells me that this thread is no longer about the SWM vSet Baze character anymore and is all about just arguing on the Internet. So since we seem to no longer have a moderator on the forums, can the parties involved in this schoolyard, "my dick is bigger than your dick" argument please take it to bloomail or a phone call or texting or someplace other than the open forum used for making the game better...
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shmi15 wrote:I'm still lost in all this I think. So regardless if a piece if flavorful.. You still use them correct? The squad you gave me to look at with the Maul on Speeder... What flavor is in that piece? What did he actually do on the Speeder? Didn't he just run up to Qui-Gon and jump off? Why are you using that piece at all if it doesn't represent him better? Or Better yet! Darth Sidious, Supreme Chancellor! The name alone is moronic! He was never openly Supreme Chancellor when he was with the Seps. He was just Lord Sidious. How in the world can you make a squad that uses a name that doesn't represent the character better? Its egregious!Quadruple and Ambush!? Show me a scene where a Seps Palps fought! Please! To the best of my knowledge he doesn't until Episode 3, when he is about to taken by the Jedi Council... Wait a minute... WHy does he have Ambush also!! He didn't ambush them in that scene. You should never run that piece either. Its not flavorful! The squad has Lobot.... But... Lobot has an ability that isn't representing of him at all! Reserves!? He called in some Cloud Pilots/Troopers. Why in the world would you use that piece in a squad! It has NO FLAVOR! And whats this... A mouse droid in your squad? Seven Hells... How could you possibly use a mouse droid when the flavor for it is just not there. Relay Orders? Ugh. I'm just baffled that you, could find it in yourself to use THIS piece!? Wait a minute... Your using a Muun Tactics Broker? When have you ever seen a Muun sacrifice an ally in battle? IS that piece more flavorful for you? Lets see... Your very next squad. Sith Immortality.... Wait a minute... Darth Caedus?! Allow me. Force Ascetic? Do you believe he is in capable of "spending a FP" to move faster? Or.... Wait for it... Was it a FUNCTIONAL ability for this character in this faction. Hmmm.. Who knows. I bet you do. Aiing Ti... Did he eevr actually fight someone when he flow walked? Because if not, then this ability needs to be abolished. It just doesn't make sense for him to be able to do it in a game, if he never did in the books. Darth Sion, your next character in a squad you made.... Do any of his abilities represent him at all? Why are you using him? Zannah, Come on... Lightsaber Combat Expert. In what chapter did she make someone hit themselves with their own lightsaber? THATS RIDICULOUS! How could you use her when that ability is on her! Wait a Minute... Vergere... in a Sith squad.... How on Earth. Why would you even want to run her in a Sith squad! and whats this ability she has? Coral Implants? You mean to tell me she can give VC6 to ANYONE! Thats absurd! Where is the flavor in that? I'm just lost. Because. You claim to love flavor over function.. Yet... Your squads are not flavorful, but have multiple functions... Baze would actually be an improvement from a Flavor standpoint... Because you are FORCED to use Rogue one characters to make him better... Hmm... And I feel like we have made points for the abilities to be on him... The same way you have made yours about them not being on them. The idea of making EVERY version of EVERY character identical is absurd. Some versions should be more flavorful, some should be more functional. If you don't like the functional, just make a flavorful squad... Wait... You don't though... So I am lost. This is just about this one particular person and his one particular version that you don't agree with? I think we can all live with that. Just don't use him :) and be angry when someone else does, and all they do is Furious Assault with Baze, while being Grappling Hooked by Luke Skywalker! Wait a minute... How can Luke do that!!!! I'm outraged! Shmi15 accept the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. You tried to argue and you lost. Now you are trying to bring up the fact that nothing is flavorful? so I should not play the game? I am a purist... But I do have the ability to work through game mechanics and strategies to find ways to have a lot of fun. This game is getting back to being fun. I posted that army so you could see a clear example of me being able to "overlook" function over flavor to be able to find the flavor I desired. I love swinging and smashing with Sidious. I play in vassal regionals when I can and I do the CCC designs when I can and I play in skirmishes when i can. I have fun with those. I have pushed for a "Vassal Play night" and it half got started but than complications with the wife and baby made this year really hard to be super involved. I even had to back out of the vassal regional which sucked. The stat line for Baze is a fun stat line (I have said that multiple times).... The stat line for Yaddle is fun, I make armies. I make lots of armies. I love armies. I love synergies. I made a good army http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/174227/cloning-dash-rendarthat I will not play because I do not play full shooter squads because I am not good with them. (ask spryguy). I make tons of armies I will not play, I like building squads. What is the point of questioning Lobot? When I play for fun I do not use Lobot... I am like everyone else in that regard. The Vassal regionals and things like that are not super competitive, they are a ton of fun. You can play theme and flavor squads these days and have a pretty good time making some allowances with things like override. Which is awesome. Did I play the game when it was mouse wall driven? swarm driven? non-unique shooter driven? nope, at that point I helped make Legends. But the point has always been to return to standard. This is why TN guys are coming back in more support of the game. We see the changes, welcome them, and have fun with the game we love. So Shmi15 why are you here? I bet you it is because of changes made by balance committee, play testing committee, and designers. Why did you leave? What happened since you left that has made you say that you will play test again? Why did those things happen? Well they happened because people were leaving the game, but also because people voiced their opinions. I feel like you are butt hurt and trying anything to find a way to dig in and find some credibility again. (mostly by trying to illegitimatize my position (is illegitimatize a word?). So instead of questioning my personal reasons on why I play what I play stick to the importance of Flavor vs Function and where function fits and what sacrifices can be made to attain function while also ensuring the integrity of the piece.
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Gizmotronx---- jen'ari and smhi15 are my brother and brother in law, so they talk to eachother like this lol. I do want to say that the community is nice in person and tournaments and stuff are always a blast. we just get passionate about the game we love, but in the end it is great to come out and do these things, don't let internet forum talk keep you away. actually I feel like you should join in on the forum talk and smash shmi15, he likes sucker punch so he deserves it lol. 
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donnyrides wrote:"Baze would actually be an improvement from a Flavor standpoint... Because you are FORCED to use Rogue one characters to make him better... Hmm..."
^^ This point here kind of throws me... Baze couldn't care less if he was part of "Rogue One" all he cared about was Imwe. which is why in my CCC version of him, I didn't give him "Rogue One". Just because they were in a movie together doesn't make them chums. To me, it's like giving any beardless Obi-one and Gui-Gon and Jar Jar an ability (Phantom Menace) and force you to use them together to make them great.
From the movie, which "Rogue One" character made Baze better other than Imwe??
I love subfactions, but if I had to pick, on this one, I'd rather it not exist.
Recent subfactions
Ghost Crew - makes sense, they are together for most of the cartoon series
Resistance - This is what the NR called themselves and it marks an era in time which I think is a really good way to lump pieces together in the first place
First Order - Same as resistance
Rogue One - people together in a space ship and in a movie together. Not really enough to go on to cause a real connection or synergy other than the little mini connections such as Jyn and Cassian or Imwe and Baze or Cassian and K-2SO but K-2 and Baze have very little to do with each other.
Imps from movie "Rogue One" Have no possible subfaction since they are straight up Imperials.
Just throwing this out there as an OPINION. It can be thought of in many other ways and I'm cool with that.
EDIT: X:22 PM - There have been about 8 people watching this thread. 30 minutes have gone since I posted my post seen above with no comments, and that's fine. BUT had I posted direct shade about somebody there would be reactions. So this tells me that this thread is no longer about the SWM vSet Baze character anymore and is all about just arguing on the Internet. So since we seem to no longer have a moderator on the forums, can the parties involved in this schoolyard, "my dick is bigger than your dick" argument please take it to bloomail or a phone call or texting or someplace other than the open forum used for making the game better... I am actually at work, and I read your post, it was enjoyable and I agree 1000000 PERCENT! I actually said earlier in the thread that he should have had an ability like devotion-this character can only benefit from special abilities or commander effects of a character whose name contains Imwe. I also agree that "rogue one" is a weak faction I think cassian was a horrible leader or commander, and that they were more together for a goal then synergy or anything else.
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donnyrides wrote:
EDIT: X:22 PM - There have been about 8 people watching this thread. 30 minutes have gone since I posted my post seen above with no comments, and that's fine. BUT had I posted direct shade about somebody there would be reactions. So this tells me that this thread is no longer about the SWM vSet Baze character anymore and is all about just arguing on the Internet. So since we seem to no longer have a moderator on the forums, can the parties involved in this schoolyard, "my dick is bigger than your dick" argument please take it to bloomail or a phone call or texting or someplace other than the open forum used for making the game better...
i agree with you and I did read your post. I think your points about Rogue One are very good. I, too, do not understand how Cassian helps that much (I think Deaths_baine brought it up) the thread is still about Star Wars Mini's and this is why. I am upset that TimmerB says things and expects people just to accept them without backing them up. People, at this point, might think I am beating a dead horse. However, when people CHOOSE to completely ignore a topic they tend to wait around for a while and than resurface and do the exact same thing as previously done. This is a political tactic and one that is really effective if others are not vigilant in pressuring people to back their claims when they are in a "leadership" position. This game is kind of like the casual players are the civilians and the designers/club are the "elected officials" they should represent the people. Now they have done a lot of changes and things are in a good, reasonable place. For a long time in this thread all i have wanted where answers to the following questions: What proof/evidence/feat is there that backs up single shot blaster? What proof/evidence/feat is there that backs up furious assaut? What proof/evidence/feat is there that backs up his 8 atk? What proof/evidence/feat is there to back up base 10 damage? I am now under the impression that there is no good answer to those questions, so than the discussion moved to a flavor vs function. However, it has been lost that TimmerB has no answer to those questions. In my opinion this is unbelievable! It is unfathomable that a design team did things without thinking about the person they where representing. They literally went from thinking about "hey maybe he should have speed 4" to "well no, he should be able to move double speed and attack everyone" WITH NO PROOF! So, my personal reasoning for wanting the discussion to continue is to hear Timmerb (who made the claims) just say that they took far too many liberties with the design and that they understand that a large portion of the players want designs to represent what they see/read in Star Wars lore. This will, I hope, accomplish two things. #1 give designers that are in a bad situation and outvoted (but right) some confidence in sticking to their thoughts that are based in truth about the character being designed. Which will make them fight hard for flavor. #2 make designers and others in charge be more aware of how much flavor should be sacrificed for function and try to uphold the integrity of characters the players love.
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I don't believe that I have responded to this thread yet, but I have read most of it. To me flavor and functionality are both equally important. I personally got into this game only because it was Star Wars. I bought two map packs at a bookstore before I had even played the game because they looked cool. From there I found http://www.starwarsmini.com/ and eventually this site. No one told me how cool the gameplay was, I just bought some Star Wars figures and maps and went from there. At the same time, I probably would have stopped playing a long time ago if there wasn't depth in the gameplay and squadbuilding. I enjoy playing the Sith faction. From a flavor perspective, they just feel like Star Wars to me. I like zapping people with lightning and smacking them with lightsabers from ambush and running out of dice to keep track of my force points. At the same time, when I build a Sith squad I try to find the most functional and playable squads (if I'm playing to win, scenario or casual play is different). This Baze piece seems to me like a good mix of flavor and function. No, the piece cannot represent exactly what happened in the film, but it can represent what the character can do WITHIN what can happen in the board game. There has to be a certain level of abstraction. Thematically, there is zero chance that an ugnaught could hurt Darth Bane or that Bane would miss an ugnaught, but that can happen (very unlikely, but possible). I also think that maybe we should all leave off of this until the full stats are released, along with the other Rogue One characters. We don't even really know fully what we are arguing about yet.
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